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> Ask yourself this: As great as smartphones are, do you want a future where everyone is required to purchase one, an a cell plan to exist in society, to engage

> Ask yourself this: As great as smartphones are, do you want a future where everyone is required to purchase one, an a cell plan to exist in society, to engage in commerce, enjoy shelter, health care and security? I’d be fine with this, so long as there’s a safety net of some sort to provide cheap/used phones to anyone who now needs one. Computers make lots of things easier, and forcing every business to accommodate the additional complexity of non-electronic access sounds like a bad idea. That said, I do agree that something should be done about “use this app to open your apartment door” and “use this app to do your laundry”. I think the emphasis should be on interoperability. So you as a business can’t require the use of a specific piece of software, but you can specify a protocol, preferably one that’s already in use. As for “my phone lost charge at 3am and I got locked out”. I see this as equivalent to “I lost my keys at 3am and got locked out”; unfortunate, but ultimately either your fault or bad luck. Time to call a locksmith (or digital equivalent, a hacker?).

em-bee 4y ago
ugh, no. an out of power phone is not the same thing as lost keys. in decades of traveling i never once lost my keys, but my phone is out of power almost every time after i spend a day away from home or office.
- idle_zealot 4y ago
  If you knew that you needed phone charge to enter your apartment I bet you'd bring a spare battery pack when you went out. You could fit in the space you save by not needing keys!
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    So instead of one tiny key, you need a powerbank, that you must also recharge and replace every few years. What if you drop the phone and break the screen?
  - alcover 4y ago
    > If you knew that you needed phone charge to enter your apartment I bet you'd bring a spare battery pack when you went out. I don't even.. what the hell.. UBIK is a fiction, not a desirable lifestyle. Your sentence is the stuff of tech-nightmares. Re-read please out loud : "If you knew that you needed phone charge to enter your apartment I bet you'd bring a spare battery pack when you went out."
    - idle_zealot 4y ago
      > Re-read please out loud I'll have you know that I read all of my posts out loud several times before submitting them. Otherwise I wouldn't be sure if they were up to HN's high standards. Having not read UBIK, I'm not sure what exactly you were going for by comparing having to keep your phone charged to "a deeply unsettling existential horror story, a nightmare you'll never be sure you've woken up from"[0]. I genuinely do not see how being required to manage a phone's battery is any more onerous a requirement to place on someone than keeping track of a key. People are used to doing both already, and of course I'm not suggesting that it would be acceptable to remove existing fallback measure like resetting locks in the event of a lost key/phone. [0]: Grossman, Lev. "Ubik–All-Time 100 Novels". Time. (via Wikipedia)
      - _uy6i 4y ago
        It seems you think that having a phone, on you at all times and charged is easier/better than a key/fob. I honestly don’t see how one can think that is a better solution. This solution REQUIRES that I can’t leave my house with my (charged) phone!!! That’s a massive restriction!
      - FiatLuxDave 4y ago
        The door refused to open. It said, “Five cents, please.” He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. “I’ll pay you tomorrow,” he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. “What I pay you,” he informed it, “is in the nature of a gratuity; I don’t have to pay you.” “I think otherwise,” the door said. “Look in the purchase contract you signed when you bought this conapt.” In his desk drawer he found the contract; since signing it he had found it necessary to refer to the document many times. Sure enough; payment to his door for opening and shutting constituted a mandatory fee. Not a tip. “You discover I’m right,” the door said. It sounded smug. From the drawer beside the sink Joe Chip got a stainless steel knife; with it he began systematically to unscrew the bolt assembly of his apt’s money-gulping door. “I’ll sue you,” the door said as the first screw fell out. Joe Chip said, “I’ve never been sued by a door. But I guess I can live through it.” ― Philip K. Dick, Ubik
  - em-bee 4y ago
    You could fit in the space you save by not needing keys! i have yet to find a powerbank that small. though if such a powerbank existed it would actually help because it would not be able to carry more charge than what is needed to unlock the door. it wouldn't be useful for much else.
- nine_k 4y ago
  Have you tried carrying a power bank with you on longer travels?
  - imwillofficial 4y ago
    That’s not the point. No matter what prep you make, the question of “do we really want to rely so much on new tech to run everything in our life?” Is a valid question.
    - jrockway 4y ago
      Yeah, this is a very reasonable position. Metal keys require no electricity, preparation, or maintenance. Newer RFID keys receive power from the building itself. Phones are strictly worse; they require the phone to have a charge, and they require a mobile app that is well-tested on a wide range of devices. I've never seen a mobile app that interacts with hardware that actually works, so I just don't think the state of the industry is good enough here. RFID seems like the perfect building access system to me. You can disable individual key fobs (whereas with metal keys you have to rekey the locks each time someone moves out) and they're cheap to replace. I definitely wouldn't mind having the option to use my phone, but it just isn't a good single point of failure. Software is nice and everything, but not nice enough to control access to my home.
ratww 4y ago
> Time to call a locksmith (or digital equivalent, a hacker?). Kinda hard to with a phone that's out of charge...
- imwillofficial 4y ago
  Imagine hackers of the future cyber dystopia being simple locksmiths for broken tech.
  - Kim_Bruning 4y ago
    Seeing how often I've needed to crack some customer's mail client or wifi, or etc ... [*] I think we're already mostly there. (Though it's not always a dark and stormy night) [*] Obviously after confirming it's really theirs and/or they have the requisite authority. The usual disclaimers apply.
    - imwillofficial 4y ago
      It’s been awhile since I had to do that sort of thing. What challenges do you face and what tools do you use?
batch12 4y ago
In addition to granting access, I would take issue with my comings and goings being tracked to the millisecond.
_uy6i 4y ago
Ok, and when I can’t get into my building because of a power outage or there is a “technical glitch”? Is something really more convenient/better if it doesn’t work when you need it most?
- ratww 4y ago
  > and when I can’t get into my building because of a power outage Just carry a Tesla Powerwall for your building. You could fit in the space you save by not needing keys!

em-bee 4y ago

ugh, no. an out of power phone is not the same thing as lost keys. in decades of traveling i never once lost my keys, but my phone is out of power almost every time after i spend a day away from home or office.

idle_zealot 4y ago
If you knew that you needed phone charge to enter your apartment I bet you'd bring a spare battery pack when you went out. You could fit in the space you save by not needing keys!
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  So instead of one tiny key, you need a powerbank, that you must also recharge and replace every few years. What if you drop the phone and break the screen?
- alcover 4y ago
  > If you knew that you needed phone charge to enter your apartment I bet you'd bring a spare battery pack when you went out. I don't even.. what the hell.. UBIK is a fiction, not a desirable lifestyle. Your sentence is the stuff of tech-nightmares. Re-read please out loud : "If you knew that you needed phone charge to enter your apartment I bet you'd bring a spare battery pack when you went out."
  - idle_zealot 4y ago
    > Re-read please out loud I'll have you know that I read all of my posts out loud several times before submitting them. Otherwise I wouldn't be sure if they were up to HN's high standards. Having not read UBIK, I'm not sure what exactly you were going for by comparing having to keep your phone charged to "a deeply unsettling existential horror story, a nightmare you'll never be sure you've woken up from"[0]. I genuinely do not see how being required to manage a phone's battery is any more onerous a requirement to place on someone than keeping track of a key. People are used to doing both already, and of course I'm not suggesting that it would be acceptable to remove existing fallback measure like resetting locks in the event of a lost key/phone. [0]: Grossman, Lev. "Ubik–All-Time 100 Novels". Time. (via Wikipedia)
    - _uy6i 4y ago
      It seems you think that having a phone, on you at all times and charged is easier/better than a key/fob. I honestly don’t see how one can think that is a better solution. This solution REQUIRES that I can’t leave my house with my (charged) phone!!! That’s a massive restriction!
    - FiatLuxDave 4y ago
      The door refused to open. It said, “Five cents, please.” He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. “I’ll pay you tomorrow,” he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. “What I pay you,” he informed it, “is in the nature of a gratuity; I don’t have to pay you.” “I think otherwise,” the door said. “Look in the purchase contract you signed when you bought this conapt.” In his desk drawer he found the contract; since signing it he had found it necessary to refer to the document many times. Sure enough; payment to his door for opening and shutting constituted a mandatory fee. Not a tip. “You discover I’m right,” the door said. It sounded smug. From the drawer beside the sink Joe Chip got a stainless steel knife; with it he began systematically to unscrew the bolt assembly of his apt’s money-gulping door. “I’ll sue you,” the door said as the first screw fell out. Joe Chip said, “I’ve never been sued by a door. But I guess I can live through it.” ― Philip K. Dick, Ubik
- em-bee 4y ago
  You could fit in the space you save by not needing keys! i have yet to find a powerbank that small. though if such a powerbank existed it would actually help because it would not be able to carry more charge than what is needed to unlock the door. it wouldn't be useful for much else.
nine_k 4y ago
Have you tried carrying a power bank with you on longer travels?
- imwillofficial 4y ago
  That’s not the point. No matter what prep you make, the question of “do we really want to rely so much on new tech to run everything in our life?” Is a valid question.
  - jrockway 4y ago
    Yeah, this is a very reasonable position. Metal keys require no electricity, preparation, or maintenance. Newer RFID keys receive power from the building itself. Phones are strictly worse; they require the phone to have a charge, and they require a mobile app that is well-tested on a wide range of devices. I've never seen a mobile app that interacts with hardware that actually works, so I just don't think the state of the industry is good enough here. RFID seems like the perfect building access system to me. You can disable individual key fobs (whereas with metal keys you have to rekey the locks each time someone moves out) and they're cheap to replace. I definitely wouldn't mind having the option to use my phone, but it just isn't a good single point of failure. Software is nice and everything, but not nice enough to control access to my home.

ratww 4y ago

> Time to call a locksmith (or digital equivalent, a hacker?). Kinda hard to with a phone that's out of charge...

imwillofficial 4y ago
Imagine hackers of the future cyber dystopia being simple locksmiths for broken tech.
- Kim_Bruning 4y ago
  Seeing how often I've needed to crack some customer's mail client or wifi, or etc ... [*] I think we're already mostly there. (Though it's not always a dark and stormy night) [*] Obviously after confirming it's really theirs and/or they have the requisite authority. The usual disclaimers apply.
  - imwillofficial 4y ago
    It’s been awhile since I had to do that sort of thing. What challenges do you face and what tools do you use?

batch12 4y ago

In addition to granting access, I would take issue with my comings and goings being tracked to the millisecond.

_uy6i 4y ago

Ok, and when I can’t get into my building because of a power outage or there is a “technical glitch”? Is something really more convenient/better if it doesn’t work when you need it most?

ratww 4y ago
> and when I can’t get into my building because of a power outage Just carry a Tesla Powerwall for your building. You could fit in the space you save by not needing keys!