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Reminds me of George W Bush vs Al Gore in that Bush had a modest ranch house with all the eco friendly features and Gore, the environmentalalist had some 20,000

Reminds me of George W Bush vs Al Gore in that Bush had a modest ranch house with all the eco friendly features and Gore, the environmentalalist had some 20,000+ foot megamansion.

ericmay 5y ago
Yea... it was unfortunate that so many people focused on that instead of the general problem and now we are barreling toward a very bad outcome. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what wealthy people do - they're going to be just fine regardless of what the rest of us do, except that if we kick and scream about their big houses and refuse to do anything we just wind up inheriting the problem and they're still right where they started. I somewhat feel this way about abortion - like I can afford to move my family or fly a family member somewhere to get one. Can you? Might want to think about that. The other issue is that focusing on something like this megamansion (as grotesque as it is anyway - seriously a lot of these rich people are just tasteless losers) leads down to a never ending condition where you just never do enough to satisfy people who have no interest in changing their habits anyway. If Gore sold his megamansion they'd say "hey you are still flying", if he stopped flying they'd say "hey you're still driving a car", if he stopped driving a car they say "hey you're not growing your own vegetables", if he started growing his own vegetables they'd say "hey the tools you use come from a carbon emitting supply chain" and if he stopped using tools and made his own they'd just keep on and on and on forever until we get global warming anyway and so many people are screwed. There's no genuine interest in solving the problem, they just want to distract you.
- gernb 5y ago
  people need to set examples. "Do as I say not as I do" it's not about distraction, it's about showing you're sincere. If you're like "save the planet" out of one side and on the other planning your 5th airflight you don't "actually" care. it's like asking poor countries to bare all the burden of climate change and rich countries doing little. "I've got mine and sorry you don't but too bad, you're not allowed to have it" is not going to convince anyone except to follow your actions, not your words
  - ericmay 5y ago
    I don’t disagree. But at the end of the day it’s our problem. So it doesn’t matter what they do.
  - ajmurmann 5y ago
    I think the difference comes down to a question of leadership style and effectiveness vs correct policy making. For example I used to be 100% vegetarian for ~5 years due to ethical concerns. The reason I stopped is that I am pretty sure that no single animal's life got spared because of me not eating meat. However, I'd immediately have voted "yes" to ban all meat eating. If I had run for office on that platform nobody would have elected me because they perceived me as insincere. Not understanding that might be bad leadership rather than actual insincerity.
- PaulKeeble 5y ago
  Greta Thunberg the way she travels to the conferences is admirable, she genuinely lives what she is talking about and it is a stark contrast to every single politician that turns up to a climate change conference with a giant team in a plane and lives extravagant lives. Its not about the complete abolition of everything its about the hypocrisy of being one of the biggest polluters in a country let alone the world while suggesting others on substantially less consumption drastically change their lives when they are least financially able to do so.
  - jokethrowaway 5y ago
    Not sure if it's sarcasm? Greta's travels are famous for looking eco friendly while not being so: https://oilprice.com/The-Environment/Global-Warming/Greta-Thunbergs-Not-So-Little-Carbon-Footprint.html https://oilprice.com/The-Environment/Global-Warming/Greta-Th...
    - yabones 5y ago
      That is a laughably bad source. Who Visits OilPrice.com? OilPrice.com's rapidly expanding and influential audience consists of investors, fund managers, resource bankers, traders, energy market professionals and high net worth individuals from all around the world but mainly North America, Canada, UK and Australia. Oil and gas industry executives from large multi-nationals to smaller independents Renewable energy company executives, investors and analysts involved in the oil and gas industry Investors and analysts involved in mining and resource sectors Investors, analysts and news enthusiasts in various renewable energy sectors Exploration and production companies Geopolitical news enthusiasts High level politicians and political advisors Editors of various news, financial, resource and energy sites High net worth individuals primarily from U.S., Canada and Europe https://oilprice.com/about-us https://oilprice.com/about-us
      - betwixthewires 5y ago
        Alright, but what's wrong with the claims?
- adonovan 5y ago
  Quite. It's easy to find fault, but if you could magically rank everyone who's ever lived by the indirect CO2 reductions of their actions, I'm pretty sure Al Gore would be near the top of that list.
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    And on other hand what about direct CO2 caused? I think all of those events people travelled for would rank him pretty high on the list.
- spiderice 5y ago
  > If Gore sold his megamansion they'd say "hey you are still flying", if he stopped flying they'd say "hey you're still driving a car" This is not true at all. People aren't stupid. They know the difference between Mega mansions/private jets and driving a car. Sure, there might be a few trolls online that will still say "But you don't grow your own vegetables". But it would definitely not become a nation wide focus in a way that living as hypocritically as Al Gore does. You're comment comes off as really dismissive. Almost like you're saying "the people calling him out for his mega mansion are just as bad as people who would call him out for not growing his own vegetables".
  - ericmay 5y ago
    I am being dismissive. The whole point is focusing on his stupid mansion is just a useless distraction and doesn’t stop climate change whatsoever. > People aren't stupid. Then why are they getting hung up on his mansion instead of demanding that their government do something? Him having a mansion doesn’t change basic scientific facts even if he’s the one stating them.
Bud 5y ago
The bad-faith narratives about Al Gore's personal life were hilariously wrong and offensive and irrelevant 25-30 years ago. I guess some people still haven't caught on. Al Gore was right about, well, basically everything he said on major policy issues. BTW, that supposed "megamansion"? It's a 5-bedroom home, really quite modest by the standards of today's billionaires. It's basically what you'd assume a former Senator and Vice President might have. Efforts to paint this as somehow offensive are obviously in bad faith.
- autoexec 5y ago
  I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that everything he said on major policy issues was correct... seems like that'd a lot of room to be wrong there, but he was sure as hell right that global warming was real and needed to be addressed. The attacks on him for his house were just to distract from his message. He also paid extra cash to his utility company to get blocks of "green power" produced using renewable sources to help offset the extra power his home consumed each year.
  - Bud 4y ago
    He was right about the Internet, too, very very early, and gets zero credit for it.

Reminds me of George W Bush vs Al Gore in that Bush had a modest ranch house with all the eco friendly features and Gore, the environmentalalist had some 20,000+ foot megamansion.

ericmay 5y ago

Yea... it was unfortunate that so many people focused on that instead of the general problem and now we are barreling toward a very bad outcome. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what wealthy people do - they're going to be just fine regardless of what the rest of us do, except that if we kick and scream about their big houses and refuse to do anything we just wind up inheriting the problem and they're still right where they started. I somewhat feel this way about abortion - like I can afford to move my family or fly a family member somewhere to get one. Can you? Might want to think about that. The other issue is that focusing on something like this megamansion (as grotesque as it is anyway - seriously a lot of these rich people are just tasteless losers) leads down to a never ending condition where you just never do enough to satisfy people who have no interest in changing their habits anyway. If Gore sold his megamansion they'd say "hey you are still flying", if he stopped flying they'd say "hey you're still driving a car", if he stopped driving a car they say "hey you're not growing your own vegetables", if he started growing his own vegetables they'd say "hey the tools you use come from a carbon emitting supply chain" and if he stopped using tools and made his own they'd just keep on and on and on forever until we get global warming anyway and so many people are screwed. There's no genuine interest in solving the problem, they just want to distract you.

gernb 5y ago
people need to set examples. "Do as I say not as I do" it's not about distraction, it's about showing you're sincere. If you're like "save the planet" out of one side and on the other planning your 5th airflight you don't "actually" care. it's like asking poor countries to bare all the burden of climate change and rich countries doing little. "I've got mine and sorry you don't but too bad, you're not allowed to have it" is not going to convince anyone except to follow your actions, not your words
- ericmay 5y ago
  I don’t disagree. But at the end of the day it’s our problem. So it doesn’t matter what they do.
- ajmurmann 5y ago
  I think the difference comes down to a question of leadership style and effectiveness vs correct policy making. For example I used to be 100% vegetarian for ~5 years due to ethical concerns. The reason I stopped is that I am pretty sure that no single animal's life got spared because of me not eating meat. However, I'd immediately have voted "yes" to ban all meat eating. If I had run for office on that platform nobody would have elected me because they perceived me as insincere. Not understanding that might be bad leadership rather than actual insincerity.
PaulKeeble 5y ago
Greta Thunberg the way she travels to the conferences is admirable, she genuinely lives what she is talking about and it is a stark contrast to every single politician that turns up to a climate change conference with a giant team in a plane and lives extravagant lives. Its not about the complete abolition of everything its about the hypocrisy of being one of the biggest polluters in a country let alone the world while suggesting others on substantially less consumption drastically change their lives when they are least financially able to do so.
- jokethrowaway 5y ago
  Not sure if it's sarcasm? Greta's travels are famous for looking eco friendly while not being so: https://oilprice.com/The-Environment/Global-Warming/Greta-Thunbergs-Not-So-Little-Carbon-Footprint.html https://oilprice.com/The-Environment/Global-Warming/Greta-Th...
  - yabones 5y ago
    That is a laughably bad source. Who Visits OilPrice.com? OilPrice.com's rapidly expanding and influential audience consists of investors, fund managers, resource bankers, traders, energy market professionals and high net worth individuals from all around the world but mainly North America, Canada, UK and Australia. Oil and gas industry executives from large multi-nationals to smaller independents Renewable energy company executives, investors and analysts involved in the oil and gas industry Investors and analysts involved in mining and resource sectors Investors, analysts and news enthusiasts in various renewable energy sectors Exploration and production companies Geopolitical news enthusiasts High level politicians and political advisors Editors of various news, financial, resource and energy sites High net worth individuals primarily from U.S., Canada and Europe https://oilprice.com/about-us https://oilprice.com/about-us
    - betwixthewires 5y ago
      Alright, but what's wrong with the claims?
adonovan 5y ago
Quite. It's easy to find fault, but if you could magically rank everyone who's ever lived by the indirect CO2 reductions of their actions, I'm pretty sure Al Gore would be near the top of that list.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  And on other hand what about direct CO2 caused? I think all of those events people travelled for would rank him pretty high on the list.
spiderice 5y ago
> If Gore sold his megamansion they'd say "hey you are still flying", if he stopped flying they'd say "hey you're still driving a car" This is not true at all. People aren't stupid. They know the difference between Mega mansions/private jets and driving a car. Sure, there might be a few trolls online that will still say "But you don't grow your own vegetables". But it would definitely not become a nation wide focus in a way that living as hypocritically as Al Gore does. You're comment comes off as really dismissive. Almost like you're saying "the people calling him out for his mega mansion are just as bad as people who would call him out for not growing his own vegetables".
- ericmay 5y ago
  I am being dismissive. The whole point is focusing on his stupid mansion is just a useless distraction and doesn’t stop climate change whatsoever. > People aren't stupid. Then why are they getting hung up on his mansion instead of demanding that their government do something? Him having a mansion doesn’t change basic scientific facts even if he’s the one stating them.

Bud 5y ago

The bad-faith narratives about Al Gore's personal life were hilariously wrong and offensive and irrelevant 25-30 years ago. I guess some people still haven't caught on. Al Gore was right about, well, basically everything he said on major policy issues. BTW, that supposed "megamansion"? It's a 5-bedroom home, really quite modest by the standards of today's billionaires. It's basically what you'd assume a former Senator and Vice President might have. Efforts to paint this as somehow offensive are obviously in bad faith.

autoexec 5y ago
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that everything he said on major policy issues was correct... seems like that'd a lot of room to be wrong there, but he was sure as hell right that global warming was real and needed to be addressed. The attacks on him for his house were just to distract from his message. He also paid extra cash to his utility company to get blocks of "green power" produced using renewable sources to help offset the extra power his home consumed each year.
- Bud 4y ago
  He was right about the Internet, too, very very early, and gets zero credit for it.