4 ms·

It seems EU politicians believe in climate change, until they have to catch a bus for a couple of hours… BTW, I am a EU citizen worried about climate change an

It seems EU politicians believe in climate change, until they have to catch a bus for a couple of hours… BTW, I am a EU citizen worried about climate change and tired of recycling at home to sometimes see this kind of hypocrisy of some politicians.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> seeing this kind of hypocrisy of some politicians No need for hypocrisy. Those of us who see flight shame as a bit silly can fly. Others can not. I assume the same applies for EU politicians.
- pfortuny 4y ago
  It is hypocrisy because these trips are official ones, so they are essentially paid by us (the citizens). And these are the bureaucrats telling us to use clean vehicles. It is not hypocrisy in the sense you state, certainly. It is the governmental one (do as I force you, not as I do with your money).
gpvos 4y ago
There used to be some good intercity trains from Brussels via Luxemburg to Strasbourg (Iris and Vauban), but they were cancelled in 2016 because of the TGV Est Paris-Strasbourg. It's a bit long for a bus ride really, especially when you'd want to work during the ride. Edit: oops, this is about Frankfurt-Strasbourg. (Sorry, I mixed it up with some other fairly recent reporting.) That's really hard to justify: there are high-speed trains doing that route in 1h50, and a non-stop one could do it even faster.
axl7777 4y ago
Air transport account for less than 4% of the 51 b tons of CO2 we send every year. These politicians aren’t going to make any difference. We could ask them to be role models, but with what finality? Again air transport is not the most urgent problem. I understand this is a topic that can be used to raise awareness, but the most useful thing these politicians could do is to rethink the way (EU) businesses are leading China and India to use coal for energy. Why no one proposes to handle this topic, I do not understand. And if someone would handle it, then it would be time to use your next vote wisely.
- melenaboija 4y ago
  That is exactly my point. Then don’t try to convince me to separate my waste at home, because when you ask what is the true impact of it they say it is small but the sum of small efforts is what matters. Or is it that some are exempt of it?
- plandis 4y ago
  Some countries are starting to ban short haul flights. Seems a bit hypocritical to ban flights that would benefit your average citizens but then utilize the type of flight that’s convenient for politicians.
- lawl 4y ago
  > We could ask them to be role models, but with what finality? Yes! That would show everyone that dealing with climate change is going to reduce your quality of life. I'm sure that's a good idea.
- pfortuny 4y ago
  They are "not going to make a difference" but we the people (I am a Spaniard) are paying for their jobs and they are constantly pressing us to use less polluting means of transportation. That is the shame. And the silly fact of the EU having: Brussels, Frankfurt, Luxembourg, Strasbourg as seats of the Government makes this shameful and, yes, scandalous.
  - user_7832 4y ago
    Multiple locations makes sense politically. Different countries reduce the likelihood of anyone claiming favouritism (perhaps very slightly, but still) and makes it feel more democratic, even if it is more inefficient.
- reaperducer 4y ago
  Air transport account for less than 4% of the 51 b tons of CO2 we send every year. These politicians aren’t going to make any difference. As they say, no snowflake thinks it's responsible for the avalanche.
- 4y ago
d0mine 4y ago
As I understand recycling at home is just a red-herring (it ends up somewhere in Turkey anyway and even if it didn't it is just a bucket in the ocean compared to the actual reasons for the climate change (natural resources industry). If we won't discount the consequences on the climate then nuclear energy becomes even more price competitive (real non snake-oil solution)).
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bogomipz 4y ago
Indeed. The political class increasingly have lost touch with just how regular people live. A regular person would be on the 4 hour train or the Flix bus. They seem to believe in lots of things mostly for "other" people though. It would be nice if they replaced these monthly sessions with Zoom meetings or similar. It's almost as if they are completely oblivious to corporate remote meetings revolution of the last 2+ years because of the pandemic. I have a mental image of one of these bureaucrats sitting in business class working a Powerpoint presentation about energy policy.
trompetenaccoun 4y ago
It's not even a couple of hours, that's the best part. There are direct trains (ICE/TGV) that take around two hours, some even a bit less. The flight can't possibly be faster if you factor in getting to the airport and going through the security theater. Which, if we want to talk about beliefs is another ridiculous policy that hasn't demonstrably saved any lives. Instead now people simply get shot up in theaters and run over at Christmas markets. But thank god they're taking everyone's lighter and water bottle. I wonder if part of the reason they're flying is that they don't want to be in public transport with the plebeians.
- jollybean 4y ago
  If there are direct trains there is simply no excuse. Frankly, wherever there are fast alternatives, I wonder if the days of airlines are numbered. Push through rail opportunities like maybe more runs with smaller trains, better synchronization of schedules, quick connections, faster trains etc..
  - trompetenaccoun 4y ago
    Sure, but just to add a bit to it there were multiple terror attacks on trains in Europe in recent years. In Germany there was this knife attack just a few months ago, as an example. You also run into some annoying folks on public transport from time to time even if they're not trying to kill you. In those pricey plane seats they're among themselves. This is the best explanation I can come up with why they're doing it, there isn't really any advantage flying this route. It's not true that people choose the most ecological mode of transport as long as speed is equal or faster, they often have other priorities.
    - jen20 4y ago
      The advantage is you can fly from wherever your constituency is in the EU to Frankfurt and then connect on to Strasbourg, and do the same on the way home.
    - waqf 4y ago
      >In those pricey plane seats they're among themselves. Train travel also has multiple classes of service. And in some ways it's easier to keep people in their own half on a long train than on an A319 where they're only separated by a few feet and a curtain. So I guess I don't see your point here? Unless you're claiming that terrorists travel first class on trains but can't afford it on planes.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> seeing this kind of hypocrisy of some politicians No need for hypocrisy. Those of us who see flight shame as a bit silly can fly. Others can not. I assume the same applies for EU politicians.

pfortuny 4y ago
It is hypocrisy because these trips are official ones, so they are essentially paid by us (the citizens). And these are the bureaucrats telling us to use clean vehicles. It is not hypocrisy in the sense you state, certainly. It is the governmental one (do as I force you, not as I do with your money).

gpvos 4y ago

There used to be some good intercity trains from Brussels via Luxemburg to Strasbourg (Iris and Vauban), but they were cancelled in 2016 because of the TGV Est Paris-Strasbourg. It's a bit long for a bus ride really, especially when you'd want to work during the ride. Edit: oops, this is about Frankfurt-Strasbourg. (Sorry, I mixed it up with some other fairly recent reporting.) That's really hard to justify: there are high-speed trains doing that route in 1h50, and a non-stop one could do it even faster.

axl7777 4y ago

Air transport account for less than 4% of the 51 b tons of CO2 we send every year. These politicians aren’t going to make any difference. We could ask them to be role models, but with what finality? Again air transport is not the most urgent problem. I understand this is a topic that can be used to raise awareness, but the most useful thing these politicians could do is to rethink the way (EU) businesses are leading China and India to use coal for energy. Why no one proposes to handle this topic, I do not understand. And if someone would handle it, then it would be time to use your next vote wisely.

melenaboija 4y ago
That is exactly my point. Then don’t try to convince me to separate my waste at home, because when you ask what is the true impact of it they say it is small but the sum of small efforts is what matters. Or is it that some are exempt of it?
plandis 4y ago
Some countries are starting to ban short haul flights. Seems a bit hypocritical to ban flights that would benefit your average citizens but then utilize the type of flight that’s convenient for politicians.
lawl 4y ago
> We could ask them to be role models, but with what finality? Yes! That would show everyone that dealing with climate change is going to reduce your quality of life. I'm sure that's a good idea.
pfortuny 4y ago
They are "not going to make a difference" but we the people (I am a Spaniard) are paying for their jobs and they are constantly pressing us to use less polluting means of transportation. That is the shame. And the silly fact of the EU having: Brussels, Frankfurt, Luxembourg, Strasbourg as seats of the Government makes this shameful and, yes, scandalous.
- user_7832 4y ago
  Multiple locations makes sense politically. Different countries reduce the likelihood of anyone claiming favouritism (perhaps very slightly, but still) and makes it feel more democratic, even if it is more inefficient.
reaperducer 4y ago
Air transport account for less than 4% of the 51 b tons of CO2 we send every year. These politicians aren’t going to make any difference. As they say, no snowflake thinks it's responsible for the avalanche.
4y ago

d0mine 4y ago

As I understand recycling at home is just a red-herring (it ends up somewhere in Turkey anyway and even if it didn't it is just a bucket in the ocean compared to the actual reasons for the climate change (natural resources industry). If we won't discount the consequences on the climate then nuclear energy becomes even more price competitive (real non snake-oil solution)).

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

bogomipz 4y ago

Indeed. The political class increasingly have lost touch with just how regular people live. A regular person would be on the 4 hour train or the Flix bus. They seem to believe in lots of things mostly for "other" people though. It would be nice if they replaced these monthly sessions with Zoom meetings or similar. It's almost as if they are completely oblivious to corporate remote meetings revolution of the last 2+ years because of the pandemic. I have a mental image of one of these bureaucrats sitting in business class working a Powerpoint presentation about energy policy.

trompetenaccoun 4y ago

It's not even a couple of hours, that's the best part. There are direct trains (ICE/TGV) that take around two hours, some even a bit less. The flight can't possibly be faster if you factor in getting to the airport and going through the security theater. Which, if we want to talk about beliefs is another ridiculous policy that hasn't demonstrably saved any lives. Instead now people simply get shot up in theaters and run over at Christmas markets. But thank god they're taking everyone's lighter and water bottle. I wonder if part of the reason they're flying is that they don't want to be in public transport with the plebeians.

jollybean 4y ago
If there are direct trains there is simply no excuse. Frankly, wherever there are fast alternatives, I wonder if the days of airlines are numbered. Push through rail opportunities like maybe more runs with smaller trains, better synchronization of schedules, quick connections, faster trains etc..
- trompetenaccoun 4y ago
  Sure, but just to add a bit to it there were multiple terror attacks on trains in Europe in recent years. In Germany there was this knife attack just a few months ago, as an example. You also run into some annoying folks on public transport from time to time even if they're not trying to kill you. In those pricey plane seats they're among themselves. This is the best explanation I can come up with why they're doing it, there isn't really any advantage flying this route. It's not true that people choose the most ecological mode of transport as long as speed is equal or faster, they often have other priorities.
  - jen20 4y ago
    The advantage is you can fly from wherever your constituency is in the EU to Frankfurt and then connect on to Strasbourg, and do the same on the way home.
  - waqf 4y ago
    >In those pricey plane seats they're among themselves. Train travel also has multiple classes of service. And in some ways it's easier to keep people in their own half on a long train than on an A319 where they're only separated by a few feet and a curtain. So I guess I don't see your point here? Unless you're claiming that terrorists travel first class on trains but can't afford it on planes.