3 ms·

> Also, claiming that they "seem to be poisonous" without any qualifiers is a little misleading. To my knowledge they're only poisonous during manufacturing (ie

> Also, claiming that they "seem to be poisonous" without any qualifiers is a little misleading. To my knowledge they're only poisonous during manufacturing (ie. the precursor chemicals) and when they get too hot. 1. The manufacturing process results in those precursor chemicals entering urban water supplies where they are nearly impossible to filter out (only RO is effective and it's not even 100% effective), and once in the bloodstream of people are powerful endrocrine disruptors which circulate and are filtered slowly by the kidneys... and when peed out go right back into the water supply due to not being able to be removed during treatment. These "forever chemicals" are some of the most health damaging pollutants in the West. 2. Teflon is extremely hazardous when consumed and it flakes off of the pans over time (which is why they must be replaced often) or when incorrect utensils are used (common among unsophisticated users). 3. Teflon can overheat on a standard consumer stove using standard cooking techniques. You actually need different techniques to prevent overheating a Teflon pan. 4. Cast Iron is effectively non-stick after enough use, and you can absolutely fry an egg in it without sticking if you have a smooth-bottom pan (either a vintage cast iron, new vintage-style, or a new style that you've sanded down and seasoned yourself).

gruez 5y ago
>1. The manufacturing process results in those precursor chemicals entering urban water supplies where they are nearly impossible to filter out (only RO is effective and it's not even 100% effective), and once in the bloodstream of people are powerful endrocrine disruptors which circulate and are filtered slowly by the kidneys... and when peed out go right back into the water supply due to not being able to be removed during treatment. These "forever chemicals" are some of the most health damaging pollutants in the West. That's why I said it was "a little misleading" rather that outright false. "poisonous" sort of implies that the object itself is poisonous or is bad for you. I'm sure manufacturing a smartphone causes a bunch of environmental damage, but you wouldn't call it poisonous (outside of putting in in your mouth). >2. Teflon is extremely hazardous when consumed and it flakes off of the pans over time (which is why they must be replaced often) or when incorrect utensils are used (common among unsophisticated users). source? This is contradicted by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene#Safety https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene#Safety >3. Teflon can overheat on a standard consumer stove using standard cooking techniques. You actually need different techniques to prevent overheating a Teflon pan. Like I said in my initial comment, teflon has its uses. I'm not saying it's the best tool for every job. Given that, I highly doubt this applies if I'm just cooking my eggs. >4. Cast Iron is effectively non-stick after enough use, and you can absolutely fry an egg in it without sticking if you have a smooth-bottom pan (either a vintage cast iron, new vintage-style, or a new style that you've sanded down and seasoned yourself). Sounds like a lot of work to me. In other words, the teflon pan is actually more convenient.
- stouset 5y ago
  > Sounds like a lot of work to me. In other words, the teflon pan is actually more convenient. It’s actually zero work, despite the recent uptick in people who think you need to coddle a cast iron pan. Most of the tips people give for dealing with cast iron are pointless extra work or actively make it perform worse. I wash mine with soap and water and it takes about a minute, or about as long as washing a Teflon pan. Frequently I don’t even bother with this, and just wipe it out with a paper towel. There was no need to jump through hoops to specially season the thing. Just use it, and its non-stick properties increase over time. It’s zero maintenance and I’ve had the damn thing for over a decade now.
  - evilduck 5y ago
    Cast iron does have a couple rules that are exceptions in the modern kitchen. You can’t leave them soaking in the sink or run them through the dishwasher without creating a bunch of maintenance work to remove the rust you just created but this is usually less work, just different. Instead of soaking in the sink I tend to just boil a cup of water in the pan and it loosens up anything stuck. You also shouldn’t cook high acid foods like a slow simmering pasta sauce in cast iron since it can have unwanted taste effects. But otherwise, anything you read about seasoning with flaxseed oil and building up layers is a waste of your time, just use it. I can also sympathize with anyone who is of below average strength (children, injured or disabled, advanced age) not choosing cast iron, they are heavy compared to a Teflon pan.
    - jokethrowaway 5y ago
      It's not a waste of time. Sometimes the pan will get sticky. Coating it with oil and putting it in the oven at high temperature will make it as good as new. It's just not as common as people think when they hear about it.
      - stouset 5y ago
        The pan getting sticky is with overwhelming probability because people have a weird belief that you shouldn’t wash with soap or use the scrubby side of the sponge. This causes a buildup of half-polymerized oils which are sticky and/or rough. The reason reseasoning “works” is simply because you’re finishing the polymerization process. But it’s completely unnecessary. The real solution isn’t to reseason. It’s to just wash the damn thing. Soap, water, and whatever scrub brush does the job. Nothing you do short of steel wool is going to make a dent in the seasoning. Not washing with soap is one of those widespread myths that actively makes your cast iron perform worse. I struggled with this problem constantly until I stopped babying my cast iron and I’ve never had a problem since. What totally changed my perspective was trying to get the black stuff off an aluminum sheet pan. It’s a slightly different bond than the seasoning on a cast iron pan but functionally they’re both the same thing. Getting that off a sheet pan required meticulously scrubbing with steel wool and a lot of elbow grease. It clicked for me that if it’s that hard to get it off a sheet pan, it’s not coming off my cast iron because I used a little Dawn.
stouset 5y ago
> Cast Iron is effectively non-stick after enough use, and you can absolutely fry an egg in it without sticking if you have a smooth-bottom pan (either a vintage cast iron, new vintage-style, or a new style that you've sanded down and seasoned yourself). I replied to the GP, but I fry eggs in a bog-standard Lodge which is neither vintage nor sanded down. It still has a distinct ”pebbly” appearance to it, though perhaps less than when I first got it. Works like a charm, and a shake of the pan is usually all that’s needed to release eggs.
- lolinder 5y ago
  Yeah, I get that for some people going the extra mile is worth it, but it's important to point out that you don't need to do anything extra to get a perfectly functional pan. My modern Lodge skillet is more non-stick than any non-stick pan I've ever owned, and I've never even formally seasoned it. I just cooked with a little oil for the first month or so.
robonerd 5y ago
> 2. Teflon is extremely hazardous when consumed and it flakes off of the pans over time (which is why they must be replaced often) or when incorrect utensils are used (common among unsophisticated users). It's very common to use incorrect utensils (metal) because the correct ones (wood, plastic) are are harder to clean and don't last as long, and few people would choose to use such utensils if all else were equal.
- therealdrag0 5y ago
  I use non stick pans with non metal utensils and it’s worked great for me for years.
hackernewds 5y ago
cast iron is still not a viable alternative for every day cooking due to leeching of the iron into food - some iron is good, but usually this occurs at extraordinary levels
- tintedfireglass 5y ago
  Stainless steel, Aluminum, Copper, etc. There are many replacements for Teflon which don't leach (I guess aluminum leaches but not sure).
Der_Einzige 5y ago
The whole "Teflon flakes are hazardous when consumed" thing is totally BS - it's the chemicals produced when it gets too hot that aerosolize which you breathe in during cooking that are so bad for you (and the other stuff you mentioned about it's production process) https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/is-teflon-coating-safe#:~:text=Teflon%20on%20its%20own%20is,t%20pose%20any%20health%20risks https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/is-teflon-coating-safe#:~.... This is not to go against your other points, but stop spreading FUD please.
LorenPechtel 5y ago
Teflon flaking off isn't hazardous--the whole point of Teflon is that the chemicals are polymerized into a very inert form. That's why food doesn't stick. They only become dangerous if they depolymerize--which is where the issue with overheating comes from. Heating an empty pan can reach depolymerizing temperature.
- nemo1618 5y ago
  In fact, there's even a (mildly insane) proposal to intentionally add Teflon to food, because the extra mass makes you feel full even though the Teflon just passes right through you.

gruez 5y ago

>1. The manufacturing process results in those precursor chemicals entering urban water supplies where they are nearly impossible to filter out (only RO is effective and it's not even 100% effective), and once in the bloodstream of people are powerful endrocrine disruptors which circulate and are filtered slowly by the kidneys... and when peed out go right back into the water supply due to not being able to be removed during treatment. These "forever chemicals" are some of the most health damaging pollutants in the West. That's why I said it was "a little misleading" rather that outright false. "poisonous" sort of implies that the object itself is poisonous or is bad for you. I'm sure manufacturing a smartphone causes a bunch of environmental damage, but you wouldn't call it poisonous (outside of putting in in your mouth). >2. Teflon is extremely hazardous when consumed and it flakes off of the pans over time (which is why they must be replaced often) or when incorrect utensils are used (common among unsophisticated users). source? This is contradicted by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene#Safety https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene#Safety >3. Teflon can overheat on a standard consumer stove using standard cooking techniques. You actually need different techniques to prevent overheating a Teflon pan. Like I said in my initial comment, teflon has its uses. I'm not saying it's the best tool for every job. Given that, I highly doubt this applies if I'm just cooking my eggs. >4. Cast Iron is effectively non-stick after enough use, and you can absolutely fry an egg in it without sticking if you have a smooth-bottom pan (either a vintage cast iron, new vintage-style, or a new style that you've sanded down and seasoned yourself). Sounds like a lot of work to me. In other words, the teflon pan is actually more convenient.

stouset 5y ago
> Sounds like a lot of work to me. In other words, the teflon pan is actually more convenient. It’s actually zero work, despite the recent uptick in people who think you need to coddle a cast iron pan. Most of the tips people give for dealing with cast iron are pointless extra work or actively make it perform worse. I wash mine with soap and water and it takes about a minute, or about as long as washing a Teflon pan. Frequently I don’t even bother with this, and just wipe it out with a paper towel. There was no need to jump through hoops to specially season the thing. Just use it, and its non-stick properties increase over time. It’s zero maintenance and I’ve had the damn thing for over a decade now.
- evilduck 5y ago
  Cast iron does have a couple rules that are exceptions in the modern kitchen. You can’t leave them soaking in the sink or run them through the dishwasher without creating a bunch of maintenance work to remove the rust you just created but this is usually less work, just different. Instead of soaking in the sink I tend to just boil a cup of water in the pan and it loosens up anything stuck. You also shouldn’t cook high acid foods like a slow simmering pasta sauce in cast iron since it can have unwanted taste effects. But otherwise, anything you read about seasoning with flaxseed oil and building up layers is a waste of your time, just use it. I can also sympathize with anyone who is of below average strength (children, injured or disabled, advanced age) not choosing cast iron, they are heavy compared to a Teflon pan.
  - jokethrowaway 5y ago
    It's not a waste of time. Sometimes the pan will get sticky. Coating it with oil and putting it in the oven at high temperature will make it as good as new. It's just not as common as people think when they hear about it.
    - stouset 5y ago
      The pan getting sticky is with overwhelming probability because people have a weird belief that you shouldn’t wash with soap or use the scrubby side of the sponge. This causes a buildup of half-polymerized oils which are sticky and/or rough. The reason reseasoning “works” is simply because you’re finishing the polymerization process. But it’s completely unnecessary. The real solution isn’t to reseason. It’s to just wash the damn thing. Soap, water, and whatever scrub brush does the job. Nothing you do short of steel wool is going to make a dent in the seasoning. Not washing with soap is one of those widespread myths that actively makes your cast iron perform worse. I struggled with this problem constantly until I stopped babying my cast iron and I’ve never had a problem since. What totally changed my perspective was trying to get the black stuff off an aluminum sheet pan. It’s a slightly different bond than the seasoning on a cast iron pan but functionally they’re both the same thing. Getting that off a sheet pan required meticulously scrubbing with steel wool and a lot of elbow grease. It clicked for me that if it’s that hard to get it off a sheet pan, it’s not coming off my cast iron because I used a little Dawn.

stouset 5y ago

> Cast Iron is effectively non-stick after enough use, and you can absolutely fry an egg in it without sticking if you have a smooth-bottom pan (either a vintage cast iron, new vintage-style, or a new style that you've sanded down and seasoned yourself). I replied to the GP, but I fry eggs in a bog-standard Lodge which is neither vintage nor sanded down. It still has a distinct ”pebbly” appearance to it, though perhaps less than when I first got it. Works like a charm, and a shake of the pan is usually all that’s needed to release eggs.

lolinder 5y ago
Yeah, I get that for some people going the extra mile is worth it, but it's important to point out that you don't need to do anything extra to get a perfectly functional pan. My modern Lodge skillet is more non-stick than any non-stick pan I've ever owned, and I've never even formally seasoned it. I just cooked with a little oil for the first month or so.

robonerd 5y ago

> 2. Teflon is extremely hazardous when consumed and it flakes off of the pans over time (which is why they must be replaced often) or when incorrect utensils are used (common among unsophisticated users). It's very common to use incorrect utensils (metal) because the correct ones (wood, plastic) are are harder to clean and don't last as long, and few people would choose to use such utensils if all else were equal.

therealdrag0 5y ago
I use non stick pans with non metal utensils and it’s worked great for me for years.

hackernewds 5y ago

cast iron is still not a viable alternative for every day cooking due to leeching of the iron into food - some iron is good, but usually this occurs at extraordinary levels

tintedfireglass 5y ago
Stainless steel, Aluminum, Copper, etc. There are many replacements for Teflon which don't leach (I guess aluminum leaches but not sure).

Der_Einzige 5y ago

The whole "Teflon flakes are hazardous when consumed" thing is totally BS - it's the chemicals produced when it gets too hot that aerosolize which you breathe in during cooking that are so bad for you (and the other stuff you mentioned about it's production process) https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/is-teflon-coating-safe#:~:text=Teflon%20on%20its%20own%20is,t%20pose%20any%20health%20risks https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/is-teflon-coating-safe#:~.... This is not to go against your other points, but stop spreading FUD please.

LorenPechtel 5y ago

Teflon flaking off isn't hazardous--the whole point of Teflon is that the chemicals are polymerized into a very inert form. That's why food doesn't stick. They only become dangerous if they depolymerize--which is where the issue with overheating comes from. Heating an empty pan can reach depolymerizing temperature.

nemo1618 5y ago
In fact, there's even a (mildly insane) proposal to intentionally add Teflon to food, because the extra mass makes you feel full even though the Teflon just passes right through you.