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It’s really difficult to get Japanese citizenship. Rightfully so imo. They have a rich culture and want to preserve it.
by ryanSrich 4y ago
It’s really difficult to get Japanese citizenship. Rightfully so imo. They have a rich culture and want to preserve it.
- nylonstrung 4y agoAlso because their economy is undergirded by an exploitative 'guest worker' program
- thriftwy 4y agoEuropean countries have rich cultures too, but apparently do not have the option to preserve that. Go figure.
- School-Cotton 4y agoThey had the option. Nobody ever forced European countries to accept mass immigration. They could have remained closed and avoided outside cultural influence if they had wanted to, but most of them didn’t.
- throwaway_1928 4y agoIn fact, they went around forcing their culture upon others. This is historically a fact. Let's see what the HN censors say.
- Aurelius3 4y agoMany did, but many did not, entirety of eastern europe (minus Russia), germany, nordics, balkans, and central european states had no history of colonization or very little, and even then it was not in the regions most associated with migration to europe. Only things besides colonization that come to mind are wars in the middle east, and every country I listed besides germany is too small to matter in that.
- Ekaros 4y agoThey didn't do much colonization because they were too busy fighting wars with each other... For centuries... WW1 and WW2 and even the current conflict is just singular events in long line of internal wars of Europe. Also something that should not be easily forgotten or ever forgiven is the missionary work by religious groups... Destroying cultures around world. It is sad we have not punished them for that and maybe even banned them to protect the future.
- Aurelius3 4y ago>They didn't do much colonization because they were too busy fighting wars with each other No, nearly every one of the countries I listed had simply no intention or means to colonize effectively at a profit, has nothing to do with preoccupation with continental wars. > Also something that should not be easily forgotten or ever forgiven is the missionary work by religious groups Again, all of the countries I mentioned had very little if not null participation in this, and yet to varying degrees they are being punished for it...
- betaby 4y agoEver heard about Genghis Khan? Mehmed II?
- School-Cotton 4y agoThe comment you’re replying to never claimed that Europeans are the only people who have ever imposed their culture on others. As you point out, that claim would be patently absurd.
- xienze 4y ago> Nobody ever forced European countries to accept mass immigration. It came up for a direct vote? Or did politicians who never ran on mass immigration platforms just kinda decide to introduce legislation? People tend to conflate the acceptance of mass immigration in western countries (by characterizing opposition as horribly racist) with tacit approval by the citizens.
- unpopularopp 4y agoIn some countries it does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Hungarian_migrant_quota_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Hungarian_migrant_quota_r...
- School-Cotton 4y agoOf course in representative democracies not every topic is voted on in a referendum. The general failure of anti-immigration parties to win majorities in European countries suggests that most people are either pro-immigration or at least willing to accept it.
- xienze 4y ago> The general failure of anti-immigration parties to win majorities in European countries suggests that most people are either pro-immigration or at least willing to accept it. But again, that ties back to the demonization of being against immigration. Is it _really_ reflective of true popular support if you’re going to be labeled a racist if you don’t vote the right way?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- School-Cotton 4y agoWell, that’s why voting is secret.
- spayce 4y agoThis idea that the population has a say and gets what it wants… This is most fascinating.
- winter_blue 4y agoThe sheer amount of xenophobia and ethnic-nationalism/racism on HN that’s upvoted never surprises. I almost came to this thread expecting a flurry of xenophobic comments, and yup, I found it.
- beaconstudios 4y agoThere's quite a few dogwhistlers here for sure but I'd say it's availability bias - people comment more on threads about things they care about. Id say the community skews libertarian, not far right.
- ryan93 4y agoA lot of the immigrants to Europe are ill behaved. No one has problems with Japanese immigrants in Europe.
- LudwigNagasena 4y agoIt’s common to see it everywhere. It’s very common to hear blood and soil rhetoric wrt black people or Native Americans, but it’s called progressive and liberal but not xenophobic for some reasons.
- throwaway_1928 4y ago> It’s very common to hear blood and soil rhetoric wrt black people or Native Americans, but it’s called progressive and liberal but not xenophobic for some reasons. I believe it is called progressive and liberal because African Americans and Native Americans have historically been enslaved or (nearly) exterminated by Europeans in North America.
- thriftwy 4y agoI came to ask why it's OK for a japanese to be ethnic-nationalist but it's not OK for a european? What's wrong with being ethnic-nationalist?
- spayce 4y ago
- MadSudaca 4y agoThis is a tricky situation, because "European" culture is much more disseminated throughout the world. How many countries outside of Europe are majority Christian? How many speak Spanish, French and English? How many have large populations who are 1st or 2nd level descendants of people born in Europe? You cannot influence without being influenced.
- Aurelius3 4y ago>You cannot influence without being influenced. Why not? China has massive influence in many countries, and they seem to retain a lot of their culture while suppressing any internal change/dissent. It would seem to me that many European countries have simply decided they would like to be influenced for whatever reason, not that they are compelled to by some universal rule.
- MadSudaca 4y agoHow do you know China isn’t being influenced?
- Aurelius3 4y ago(Relatively) Low rates of foreign immigration despite ageing population, strong central goverment with the intention of weakening external and internal influences (See Uyghurs / western chinese territories for an example of internal influences, for external influences the great firewall is an obvious one, but there are many others), and third a general ethno-nationalist mentality from many, but not all Han chinese, encouraged by the central state and the general culture.
- MadSudaca 4y agoI don't think those things necessarily answer the question. Also, how long has China been at extending their influence abroad? How long does these processes take? Obviously, in the case of Europe, this has been going on for centuries. Influence is inevitable because to influence others you have to be open to be influenced. Chinese that go to these countries to make deals, embassies with workers that grow culturally connected, this is the start. Relationships may tighten beyond this. I could go on.
- jakear 4y agoWhat a mindset. "Foreigners are coming here to destroy our culture, we can let them work for us but never give them full rights".
- profunctor 4y agoWhat is this fascination people have about preserving culture as if that's reasonable or even possible? How many countries across history have preserved their culture (culture meaning food, music, art, political opinions etc). From the Roman empire to today it's the norm for culture to change.
- ryanSrich 4y agoWell I think it’s less about preserving culture in some static form, and more about having everyone on the same page, and working towards the same goals. That doesn’t seem reasonable?
- profunctor 4y agoWhen does that ever happen?
- Forgeties79 4y ago>that doesn’t seem reasonable? No not really. For starters, who determines what is the “true” culture or what the goals even are?
- Banana699 4y agoGradual culture mutation is different from sudden culture importation. There is a narrow neighbourhood in the space of possible cultures that is reachable from any given culture in it, this is the space explored by ordinary mechanims of culture change like cultural exchange and new generations. Mass immigration explores the space very differently, in a way that is sudden and discontinues.I think it's reasonable for people to worry that they're being replaced, because that's actually what's (more or less) happening.
- Forgeties79 4y ago> I think it's reasonable for people to worry that they're being replaced My issue is the entitlement that goes hand in hand with this mentality. Everyone replaces someone. What makes me so special that I get to go, “oh no you don’t, all cultural change ends with me and my friends unless I specifically sanction the change”? People made room for me, after all.
- IfOnlyYouKnew 4y agoA culture so rich, nobody feels like having children. Or maybe you meant "rigid"?
- ativzzz 4y agoHumans have an obsession with preservation of things as they are. We can certainly learn from history and appreciate it, but fighting to "preserve" things is ultimately a pointless endeavor. We are a tiny blip in the history of the Earth and fighting to preserve everything is just fighting the inevitability of the course of time, fighting nature itself.
- systemvoltage 4y agoAt the same time, I absolutely abhor and detest global monoculture. I went to Vietnam before the pandemic and lot's of hip coffee shops are basically exact clones of something you'd find in Portland.
- dredmorbius 4y agoThere might just be a middle ground between "militant racist nationalism" and "global homogenous monoculture". This seems a remarkably false dichotomy.
- usrn 4y agoI'd love to hear what you think that is.
- dredmorbius 4y agoThere are numerous instances of blended and melding cultures. These are neither purely traditional nor fully globally assimilationist. Singapore, New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Austin and San Antonio, TX, Vancouver, Sydney, London, Berlin, Miami, and Rio all come to mind. Those are among the larger cities, there are also smaller and more outlying regions. People have always moved, migrated, and interacted. Quite often peaceably, as the alternative is extraordinarily destructive.
- usrn 4y agoLondon is a miserable failure, not only in terms of crime and inequality but you've kicked an ancient island people out of their capitol city. Isn't the displacement of indigenous people something we're supposed to feel bad about? Or do the rules change based on skin color. Most of the rest are just US cities which are what he's complaining about. I think there really might not be an in between.