5 ms·

The plastic waste thing is kind of silly. People commenting here mostly live near well managed landfills and aren't worrying about burning 10 pounds of oil driv

The plastic waste thing is kind of silly. People commenting here mostly live near well managed landfills and aren't worrying about burning 10 pounds of oil driving to work. Like fine, feel free to use less plastic, but it really isn't a big portion of most people's resource consumption.

oblak 5y ago
- Liquix 5y ago
  Does someone's opinion on recycling differing from yours truly qualify them as a "creepy dude"?
  - oblak 5y ago
    That would depend on their opinion. They way I see it, there are two option: - this person seriously believes the thing they said, which I find outrageous - they lied which is just as bad By all means, feel free celebrate your victory by throwing shit away and drive a 5 ton car. That will show people like me
    - hedora 5y ago
      Option 3: You are obviously wrong. Take a tally of all the pollution you create in a week, and you'll probably find that plastic waste from the kitchen is rounding error. Be sure to include stuff like heating and cooling, transport, clothing, and any other purchaes you make. (99% of the stuff we buy will eventually be garbage, after all.)
      - bscphil 5y ago
        "Obviously" goes way too far here, even if you are including greenhouse gasses in the tally, which aren't pollution by traditional standards. My apartment's electricity and the public transportation I use to get around are powered by renewable energy sources that don't create pollution. In the average week (or month) 95% of the plastic waste I create is from inefficiently packaged foods, which definitely counts as "kitchen" plastic waste. Probably 99% of the plastic I've purchased in the last 2 years is for kitchen items. I don't think my situation is particularly unusual.
        hedora 5y ago
        What about clothes, bedding, consumables, etc? Don't forget the stuff thrown away while producing that stuff. Also, you should figure in depreciation on things like the apartment itself, vehicles, and transportation of the stuff you buy. 100% renewable energy is great, if true where you are. Most places still use natural gas peaker plants, at least. Consuming electricity during the day is cleaner than at peak, but even if you're producing your own energy (or your utility is 100% greenhouse free, regionally), the electricity you use could have displaced dirty production elsewhere on the grid. (Also, even solar and wind produce pollution -- they have embodied carbon and finite lifespans). I'm not arguing against reducing household plastic waste, but the idea that you see most of the pollution that's created by stuff you consume is optimistic. Anyway, according to the EPA, US municipal solid waste is 12.2% plastic (excluding construction waste, sewage sludge, etc). The US is likely higher than most places: https://www.epa.gov/facts-and-figures-about-materials-waste-and-recycling/national-overview-facts-and-figures-materials https://www.epa.gov/facts-and-figures-about-materials-waste-...
      - oblak 5y ago
        Apparently you buy a lot more stuff than I do. I am painfully aware of the amount of perfectly good bottles and plastic containers I throw in the "recycle" bins every other week. Couple of half full reusable bags. Still less than what many people I know contribute in a day but who's judging. Electricity is a big one, though. And water, too.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- epistasis 5y ago
  It's far far creepier to be overly concerned about plastic waste than about the gasoline cars on the road. Plastic waste has almost zero impact, zero, compared to the gasoline, brake dust, and tire microplastics coming off of cars. Where do all the microplastics in bodies of water come from? It's not plastic waste in landfills, it's tires on the road, which wear down and wash into bodies of water. Every single time your drive. Recently it was found that an essential chemical in tires for hardening them breaks down into neurotoxins that are killing massive amounts of salmon in the pacific northwest. Where is the public outcry? Nowhere!! So that is what incredibly creepy: people pretend to care about the environment to the point they make massive judgements over plastic waste, but they refuse to even consider the amount of driving that's forced onto nearly every person in the US, and we don't even consider ways to reduce that environmental impact, or allow people to even choose to live with less impact. Instead we ban the types of city planning that would allow people to go about their daily lives without the climate destroying, COPD causing, microplastic creating form of travel: cars.
  - andrewzah 5y ago
    Who is “we”? It’s not surprising or creepy that people focus on what they actually can control. None of us realistically can change the fact that America is built around roads. Not everyone can work from home. People drive not because they want to, but because they have to. Criticizing that is a highly privileged take.
    - epistasis 5y ago
      "We" is our society and laws and common discussion topics and social mores, etc. Let's keep on using the "creepy" adjective here, because I think I applies especially to this comment, even more than the prior one. Who sets the laws for how buildings are built and whether we have to drive or not? Local communities (at least in the US). So people can get involved, change what is legal and not legal to build, and advocate for it on the local level. That's what I have been doing for the last five or so years. And what I find realt creepy about the experience is how people will go out of their way to criticize others for small, meaningless actions like reducing single waste plastic, but go ballistic at the idea that we should allow some people to live in a way that doesn't force them to drive every single day and for every trip out of the house. > People drive not because they want to, but because they have to. If that is the case, then why don't they make their voices heard? I certainly don't hear anybody voicing that when we do have a chance to allow communities to be built that don't force driving. Instead I head person after person after person demanding that housing and mixed use communities be banned. At one of the meetings I was at, trying to advocate for a mixed use building, some commenter mentioned an aside of having all single use drinking containers have a tax. None, not a single one, of the board members expressed enthusiasm for this mixed use building that, as a single building, would have far bigger impact than banning all single use cups in the city. But boy did the board take up the idea of taxing single use containers, and not two years later we have a $0.25 charge when you get a to go cup at a coffee shop, but we still have a huuuuuuuuuge fight over every single bit of environment saving buildings. > Criticizing that is a highly privileged take. That's utter BS, and a commonly used dodge by people who don't want any change. Of course we can criticize a system, particularly as we change it. Saying that it's "privileged" to point out that people are forced to drive, which is what I said, is utter nonsense. And frankly, extremely creepy. People are really creepy about cars. They will excuse them, apologize for them, ignore all the damage they do, and even criticize people that point out these massive flaws, before people will admit that maybe we should st least let some people live without them.
- sacrosancty 5y ago
  It truly does less environmental harm than burning the typical amount of fossil fuel driving to work each day that he mentioned. You can quantify it. CO2 emissions from plastic production are comparable to the mass of plastic which is dwarfed by, say, a litre of petrol. Landfills aren't an environmental problem. People have just been somehow conditioned to hate them for no particular reason.
bayindirh 5y ago
That's true, however we don't have exact control on every aspect of our lives. I'd love to walk, bike or use mass transportation to go to work, however it's very impractical (~2 hours vs. 20 minutes), but I have more control over consumption of other things in my life. So, I can do my best on areas which I have most control, and do whatever I can on the areas with less control, and if you ask me, it's better than nothing.
seanwilson 5y ago
Why create waste if you don't need to for no real benefit especially in cases where it's minimal effort to avoid? I'm not saying this tip alone is going to save the planet, but you could use the same reasoning to say it doesn't matter if you litter. Not creating waste and littering when it can be easily avoided should be the sane default.

oblak 5y ago

Liquix 5y ago
Does someone's opinion on recycling differing from yours truly qualify them as a "creepy dude"?
- oblak 5y ago
  That would depend on their opinion. They way I see it, there are two option: - this person seriously believes the thing they said, which I find outrageous - they lied which is just as bad By all means, feel free celebrate your victory by throwing shit away and drive a 5 ton car. That will show people like me
  - hedora 5y ago
    Option 3: You are obviously wrong. Take a tally of all the pollution you create in a week, and you'll probably find that plastic waste from the kitchen is rounding error. Be sure to include stuff like heating and cooling, transport, clothing, and any other purchaes you make. (99% of the stuff we buy will eventually be garbage, after all.)
    - bscphil 5y ago
      "Obviously" goes way too far here, even if you are including greenhouse gasses in the tally, which aren't pollution by traditional standards. My apartment's electricity and the public transportation I use to get around are powered by renewable energy sources that don't create pollution. In the average week (or month) 95% of the plastic waste I create is from inefficiently packaged foods, which definitely counts as "kitchen" plastic waste. Probably 99% of the plastic I've purchased in the last 2 years is for kitchen items. I don't think my situation is particularly unusual.
      - hedora 5y ago
        What about clothes, bedding, consumables, etc? Don't forget the stuff thrown away while producing that stuff. Also, you should figure in depreciation on things like the apartment itself, vehicles, and transportation of the stuff you buy. 100% renewable energy is great, if true where you are. Most places still use natural gas peaker plants, at least. Consuming electricity during the day is cleaner than at peak, but even if you're producing your own energy (or your utility is 100% greenhouse free, regionally), the electricity you use could have displaced dirty production elsewhere on the grid. (Also, even solar and wind produce pollution -- they have embodied carbon and finite lifespans). I'm not arguing against reducing household plastic waste, but the idea that you see most of the pollution that's created by stuff you consume is optimistic. Anyway, according to the EPA, US municipal solid waste is 12.2% plastic (excluding construction waste, sewage sludge, etc). The US is likely higher than most places: https://www.epa.gov/facts-and-figures-about-materials-waste-and-recycling/national-overview-facts-and-figures-materials https://www.epa.gov/facts-and-figures-about-materials-waste-...
    - oblak 5y ago
      Apparently you buy a lot more stuff than I do. I am painfully aware of the amount of perfectly good bottles and plastic containers I throw in the "recycle" bins every other week. Couple of half full reusable bags. Still less than what many people I know contribute in a day but who's judging. Electricity is a big one, though. And water, too.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
epistasis 5y ago
It's far far creepier to be overly concerned about plastic waste than about the gasoline cars on the road. Plastic waste has almost zero impact, zero, compared to the gasoline, brake dust, and tire microplastics coming off of cars. Where do all the microplastics in bodies of water come from? It's not plastic waste in landfills, it's tires on the road, which wear down and wash into bodies of water. Every single time your drive. Recently it was found that an essential chemical in tires for hardening them breaks down into neurotoxins that are killing massive amounts of salmon in the pacific northwest. Where is the public outcry? Nowhere!! So that is what incredibly creepy: people pretend to care about the environment to the point they make massive judgements over plastic waste, but they refuse to even consider the amount of driving that's forced onto nearly every person in the US, and we don't even consider ways to reduce that environmental impact, or allow people to even choose to live with less impact. Instead we ban the types of city planning that would allow people to go about their daily lives without the climate destroying, COPD causing, microplastic creating form of travel: cars.
- andrewzah 5y ago
  Who is “we”? It’s not surprising or creepy that people focus on what they actually can control. None of us realistically can change the fact that America is built around roads. Not everyone can work from home. People drive not because they want to, but because they have to. Criticizing that is a highly privileged take.
  - epistasis 5y ago
    "We" is our society and laws and common discussion topics and social mores, etc. Let's keep on using the "creepy" adjective here, because I think I applies especially to this comment, even more than the prior one. Who sets the laws for how buildings are built and whether we have to drive or not? Local communities (at least in the US). So people can get involved, change what is legal and not legal to build, and advocate for it on the local level. That's what I have been doing for the last five or so years. And what I find realt creepy about the experience is how people will go out of their way to criticize others for small, meaningless actions like reducing single waste plastic, but go ballistic at the idea that we should allow some people to live in a way that doesn't force them to drive every single day and for every trip out of the house. > People drive not because they want to, but because they have to. If that is the case, then why don't they make their voices heard? I certainly don't hear anybody voicing that when we do have a chance to allow communities to be built that don't force driving. Instead I head person after person after person demanding that housing and mixed use communities be banned. At one of the meetings I was at, trying to advocate for a mixed use building, some commenter mentioned an aside of having all single use drinking containers have a tax. None, not a single one, of the board members expressed enthusiasm for this mixed use building that, as a single building, would have far bigger impact than banning all single use cups in the city. But boy did the board take up the idea of taxing single use containers, and not two years later we have a $0.25 charge when you get a to go cup at a coffee shop, but we still have a huuuuuuuuuge fight over every single bit of environment saving buildings. > Criticizing that is a highly privileged take. That's utter BS, and a commonly used dodge by people who don't want any change. Of course we can criticize a system, particularly as we change it. Saying that it's "privileged" to point out that people are forced to drive, which is what I said, is utter nonsense. And frankly, extremely creepy. People are really creepy about cars. They will excuse them, apologize for them, ignore all the damage they do, and even criticize people that point out these massive flaws, before people will admit that maybe we should st least let some people live without them.
sacrosancty 5y ago
It truly does less environmental harm than burning the typical amount of fossil fuel driving to work each day that he mentioned. You can quantify it. CO2 emissions from plastic production are comparable to the mass of plastic which is dwarfed by, say, a litre of petrol. Landfills aren't an environmental problem. People have just been somehow conditioned to hate them for no particular reason.

bayindirh 5y ago

That's true, however we don't have exact control on every aspect of our lives. I'd love to walk, bike or use mass transportation to go to work, however it's very impractical (~2 hours vs. 20 minutes), but I have more control over consumption of other things in my life. So, I can do my best on areas which I have most control, and do whatever I can on the areas with less control, and if you ask me, it's better than nothing.

seanwilson 5y ago

Why create waste if you don't need to for no real benefit especially in cases where it's minimal effort to avoid? I'm not saying this tip alone is going to save the planet, but you could use the same reasoning to say it doesn't matter if you litter. Not creating waste and littering when it can be easily avoided should be the sane default.