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There is easy way to "disprove" it in any argument: If drugs solve depression and improve mental state, suggest goverment should finance and distribute drugs t

There is easy way to "disprove" it in any argument: If drugs solve depression and improve mental state, suggest goverment should finance and distribute drugs to homeless people.

JohnBooty 4y ago
Even the most cursory examination of the topic would reveal to you that psychedelic drugs are (allegedly) beneficial when taken in a controlled manner, in safe environments - not exactly in line with the homelessness experience. Your statement is even less accurate, somehow, than saying "well if chemotherapy really works then why don't we just hand out random chemotherapy drugs to homeless people." I won't bother quoting any studies, because they wildly contradict one another, but the conventional wisdom is that some drugs can be beneficial in some circumstances. And often the benefit is harm reduction, ie managing pain with cannabis rather than opioids.
- sidewndr46 4y ago
  This is nothing more than a "Rules for thee and not for me" attitude towards the poor. Homeless and doing drugs? OK, you are an addict, you have to get help, you have to get cleaned up, you're ruining your life, etc. Nothing more than a parasite on society. Wealthy and able to have a "doctor" prescribe you drugs? OK it's fine. You aren't one of those dirty "addicts" because a guy with two letters in front of his name says it OK.
  - hey2022 4y ago
    Replace drugs with surgery in this train of thought and you will notice that it does in fact make sense. This is not a war on the poor, psychedelic medicine requires care when administered.
    - sidewndr46 4y ago
      The US government literally calls it the "War on Drugs". Given that it is notoriously difficult to maim, jail, or prosecute a chemical we can be assured it is actually a war on people. Having been through the system once myself, I can assure you that it is incredibly oppressive to poor people who cannot afford legal representation. I'm all for someone deciding they need drugs to function. It doesn't matter to me how you live your life. If you do it with a doctor, fine. If you want to figure it out on your own because you don't have access to medical care, that does not make that person a criminal. There are plenty of people self medicating with nicotine & alcohol every day, no one says it is necessary to lock them up. The only difference I see is it is a handy source of tax revenue and somehow "socially acceptable".
      - unethical_ban 4y ago
        The person you're arguing with was simply saying "throwing psychedelics at the car window at homeless people won't make them better". They didn't say "lock up the homeless for using mushrooms", he didn't say "homeless people don't deserve treatment". They were calling out the simplistic nature of the OP comment, and asserting that proper use of psychedelics for medical treatment involves a safe, controlled environment. Nothing they said or were asserting had to do with US drug policy.
      - achenet 4y ago
        Thank you for further explaining your point of view. I think also that the US's healthcare is partially to blame - if you had universal healthcare, then poor people would also (in theory) have equal access to drug prescriptions. I do think that, generally speaking, many drugs are best done under medical supervision. I have a friend of my brothers who died of a heroin overdose, her first time trying the drug. I tell myself that if we lived in a world where foolish college kids have to go to a pharmacy and get their hits administered by a registered pharmacist, maybe she'd still be alive. I also generally agree that the War on Drugs is bullshit. It didn't work for alcohol during prohibition, and it's not working now. The smart move is legalize, tax and regulate.
      - JohnBooty 4y ago
        I'm the guy you're railing against, and if it helps, I agree with everything you just said. Also, I'm sorry that you've been through the system. The system sucks in so many ways. But it sounds like it's (at least somewhat) in your past, and I'm happy for that. I hope you are in a good place now, or at least a better place.
  - germinalphrase 4y ago
    Feels like you are intentionally misreading the comment you’re responding to. Plenty of wealthy people have self-doses drugs and destroyed their lives, their bodies. You really don’t see how medically supervised drug use could be beneficial while the self-dosed, unsupervised drug use could be explicitly destructive?
  - throwamon 4y ago
    The issue with psychedelics has nothing to do with addiction. Google "psychedelics set and setting" and "psychedelics psychosis risk factors" for a start.
  - JohnBooty 4y ago
    That is quite the (intentional?) misreading of my comment. The good news is that I certainly don't believe any of the homeless-bashing things that you said. I was replying to a poster who claimed that drugs are a sham because -- in their opinion -- if drugs weren't a sham, we could simply give a bunch of drugs to homeless people. I found their argument absurd for a number of reasons and I told them so. But I certainly don't believe any of the things that you are accusing me of, so at least you and I are in agreement on some things.
- throw93232 4y ago
  I agree with you. But drugs and "microdosing" are marketed as holy grail that heals anything. My statement above is very easy way to disprove it.
  - JohnBooty 4y ago
    Nobody¹ is claiming that "drugs and microdosing" are a "holy grail that heals anything." HN decorum says we're supposed to assume best intentions on everyone's part. So I'll assume there is an honest misunderstanding on your part. No reputable person seriously claims that any drug is a miracle cure-all. The most diehard advocates of microdosing is generally beneficial for many/most people. But that is quite a far sight from proclaiming it is a magic cure for anything, let alone everything. Hopefully now you understand the matter actually being discussed. It's also possible you're trolling and didn't misunderstand things in the first place but I've decided to give you the benefit of the doubt. For the record I am skeptical re: microdosing. I have no direct experience and no plans to give it a go. It's certainly intriguing though. _____ ¹ I mean, it's the internet and you can find somebody claiming literally anything. You can probably find a chicken soup recipe that involves Tide Pods.
fullstick 4y ago
Maybe the government should finance and distribute drugs to homeless people. Some people are homeless because they can't afford their prescriptions (drugs).
Der_Einzige 4y ago
Well, given that all the homeless are already in drugs in the PNW, it looks like we know the results of this experiment already!

There is easy way to "disprove" it in any argument: If drugs solve depression and improve mental state, suggest goverment should finance and distribute drugs to homeless people.

JohnBooty 4y ago

Even the most cursory examination of the topic would reveal to you that psychedelic drugs are (allegedly) beneficial when taken in a controlled manner, in safe environments - not exactly in line with the homelessness experience. Your statement is even less accurate, somehow, than saying "well if chemotherapy really works then why don't we just hand out random chemotherapy drugs to homeless people." I won't bother quoting any studies, because they wildly contradict one another, but the conventional wisdom is that some drugs can be beneficial in some circumstances. And often the benefit is harm reduction, ie managing pain with cannabis rather than opioids.

sidewndr46 4y ago
This is nothing more than a "Rules for thee and not for me" attitude towards the poor. Homeless and doing drugs? OK, you are an addict, you have to get help, you have to get cleaned up, you're ruining your life, etc. Nothing more than a parasite on society. Wealthy and able to have a "doctor" prescribe you drugs? OK it's fine. You aren't one of those dirty "addicts" because a guy with two letters in front of his name says it OK.
- hey2022 4y ago
  Replace drugs with surgery in this train of thought and you will notice that it does in fact make sense. This is not a war on the poor, psychedelic medicine requires care when administered.
  - sidewndr46 4y ago
    The US government literally calls it the "War on Drugs". Given that it is notoriously difficult to maim, jail, or prosecute a chemical we can be assured it is actually a war on people. Having been through the system once myself, I can assure you that it is incredibly oppressive to poor people who cannot afford legal representation. I'm all for someone deciding they need drugs to function. It doesn't matter to me how you live your life. If you do it with a doctor, fine. If you want to figure it out on your own because you don't have access to medical care, that does not make that person a criminal. There are plenty of people self medicating with nicotine & alcohol every day, no one says it is necessary to lock them up. The only difference I see is it is a handy source of tax revenue and somehow "socially acceptable".
    - unethical_ban 4y ago
      The person you're arguing with was simply saying "throwing psychedelics at the car window at homeless people won't make them better". They didn't say "lock up the homeless for using mushrooms", he didn't say "homeless people don't deserve treatment". They were calling out the simplistic nature of the OP comment, and asserting that proper use of psychedelics for medical treatment involves a safe, controlled environment. Nothing they said or were asserting had to do with US drug policy.
    - achenet 4y ago
      Thank you for further explaining your point of view. I think also that the US's healthcare is partially to blame - if you had universal healthcare, then poor people would also (in theory) have equal access to drug prescriptions. I do think that, generally speaking, many drugs are best done under medical supervision. I have a friend of my brothers who died of a heroin overdose, her first time trying the drug. I tell myself that if we lived in a world where foolish college kids have to go to a pharmacy and get their hits administered by a registered pharmacist, maybe she'd still be alive. I also generally agree that the War on Drugs is bullshit. It didn't work for alcohol during prohibition, and it's not working now. The smart move is legalize, tax and regulate.
    - JohnBooty 4y ago
      I'm the guy you're railing against, and if it helps, I agree with everything you just said. Also, I'm sorry that you've been through the system. The system sucks in so many ways. But it sounds like it's (at least somewhat) in your past, and I'm happy for that. I hope you are in a good place now, or at least a better place.
- germinalphrase 4y ago
  Feels like you are intentionally misreading the comment you’re responding to. Plenty of wealthy people have self-doses drugs and destroyed their lives, their bodies. You really don’t see how medically supervised drug use could be beneficial while the self-dosed, unsupervised drug use could be explicitly destructive?
- throwamon 4y ago
  The issue with psychedelics has nothing to do with addiction. Google "psychedelics set and setting" and "psychedelics psychosis risk factors" for a start.
- JohnBooty 4y ago
  That is quite the (intentional?) misreading of my comment. The good news is that I certainly don't believe any of the homeless-bashing things that you said. I was replying to a poster who claimed that drugs are a sham because -- in their opinion -- if drugs weren't a sham, we could simply give a bunch of drugs to homeless people. I found their argument absurd for a number of reasons and I told them so. But I certainly don't believe any of the things that you are accusing me of, so at least you and I are in agreement on some things.
throw93232 4y ago
I agree with you. But drugs and "microdosing" are marketed as holy grail that heals anything. My statement above is very easy way to disprove it.
- JohnBooty 4y ago
  Nobody¹ is claiming that "drugs and microdosing" are a "holy grail that heals anything." HN decorum says we're supposed to assume best intentions on everyone's part. So I'll assume there is an honest misunderstanding on your part. No reputable person seriously claims that any drug is a miracle cure-all. The most diehard advocates of microdosing is generally beneficial for many/most people. But that is quite a far sight from proclaiming it is a magic cure for anything, let alone everything. Hopefully now you understand the matter actually being discussed. It's also possible you're trolling and didn't misunderstand things in the first place but I've decided to give you the benefit of the doubt. For the record I am skeptical re: microdosing. I have no direct experience and no plans to give it a go. It's certainly intriguing though. _____ ¹ I mean, it's the internet and you can find somebody claiming literally anything. You can probably find a chicken soup recipe that involves Tide Pods.

fullstick 4y ago

Maybe the government should finance and distribute drugs to homeless people. Some people are homeless because they can't afford their prescriptions (drugs).

Der_Einzige 4y ago

Well, given that all the homeless are already in drugs in the PNW, it looks like we know the results of this experiment already!