4 ms·

Not directly related to the article. But I'm just glad we as a society have come back around to psychedelic's. It was clear in the 1960's that these drugs have

Not directly related to the article. But I'm just glad we as a society have come back around to psychedelic's. It was clear in the 1960's that these drugs have massive potential to help treat mental illness, but we all know what Nixon did. I was watching a documentary about it the other day and it just made me sad, imagine where we would be today with mental health treatment had Nixon not made these drugs illegal. It seems that we as a society are starting to overcome the sins of the past. The problems mentioned in this article are real problems, but I almost look at it as a "good problem". If we're at the point with Psychedelics where our biggest issue is how the capitalists market it, I think we're doing alright.

carapace 4y ago
I knew a guy who fell in with some folks selling drugs & self-improvement scams back in the 90's in the Bay Area. You get some charismatic drug dealers, throw in whatever pseudo-profound quasi-religious beliefs are popular at the moment, and include a few techniques that have some kind of effect (like hyperventilation) and presto! You can charge people $$$ for your "classes" and then sell them MDMA at your house party later on. My friend spun out of control, started abusing nitrous oxide, lost his job, his girlfriend (who was in the same group of druggies), and his mind. He wound up wandering the streets of Berkeley wrapped in a blanket for a few years. His "spiritual" druggie friends abandoned him. So one the one hand, it is good that we are not criminalizing drugs themselves, but on the other, it really is a big challenge to integrate these powerful chemicals into our lives, our communities, and our ways of healing each other.
- jotm 4y ago
  Yeah, I've started buying some drugs and had to deal with actual "junkies"... and it's been rather eye opening. I can see why they just blanket ban stuff. It seems many, if not most, people, just can't control themselves. Ironic, since I've got major self-control issues myself. But seeing someone use stimulants for relaxation, take a week's worth of it in 3 hours, then beg for more, that's insane. And a few kept trying to give me advice on how to "properly" use them. It couldn't fit in their heads that I am not in it for the high (which is shit imo). I guess it affects "normal" people differently. It is hard for those who can benefit from all the great medicine out there. I wish I could get a licence to use anything at my own responsibility, I don't use official healthcare anyway (I'm glad I can get treated if I break an arm or get into a car accident, but beyond that... useless). Why am I risking prison time for trying to fix myself and make my life better?
goldenkey 4y ago
They can just as easily cause mental illness. Marijuana can cause psychosis [1] but the cannabis lobby pretty much won and there's nothing on the packaging indicating this risk. Cannabis is involved in approximately 50% of psychosis, schizophrenia, and schizophreniform psychosis cases. Thats significant, wouldn't you say? In the same vein, DMT raped my brain and I felt like a fucking husk for two years after breaking through. These things are oversold. We should legalize them, but lets not kid ourselves about how potent and powerful these substances are.
- germinalphrase 4y ago
  “ Cannabis is involved in approximately 50% of psychosis, schizophrenia, and schizophreniform psychosis cases. Thats significant, wouldn't you say?” Maybe, maybe not. Nicotine was (is?) a very common self-medication for schizophrenia. So much so that it became a trope in movies, etc (e.g. “Clean, Shaven”). If a majority of people with schizophrenia smoked cigarettes, would we argue that nicotine is implicated in the development of that condition? My instinct is certainly that you’re right, but the direction of causality could simply be backwards too.
  - goldenkey 4y ago
    Thank you for highlighting the issue of correlation vs causality vs backwards causality. Nicotine is an antipsychotic, so psychosis generally leads to nicotine use as it's much more user-friendly than prescription antipsychotics. About the movie tropes, nicotine is an acetylcholinergic agent similar to caffeine. These agents act as nootropic stimulants hence the movie tropes. Both natural and synthetic insecticides have been known to poison people due to their potent acetylcholinergic activity. [1] THC is a different beast. It's well accepted that THC is psychedelic enough to bring out latent schizophrenia. What most folks don't know about is the temporary psychosis it can cause. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organophosphate_poisoning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organophosphate_poisoning
- curun1r 4y ago
  > Cannabis is involved in approximately 50% of psychosis, schizophrenia, and schizophreniform psychosis cases. Thats significant, wouldn't you say? Absolutely not. Alcohol is involved in 60% of the snake bites in the US. It’s easy to see the causal link. But that isn’t a reason to avoid alcohol or that alcohol puts you at a significant risk of being bitten by a snake. And that’s because alcohol consumption is common and snake bites are rare. Similarly, cannabis consumption is common and the conditions you list are rare. Even if there is a causal link there, and that’s a big if, that’s not a reason to avoid cannabis. There’s no reason to assume or even worry about being in the sub-1% group.

carapace 4y ago

I knew a guy who fell in with some folks selling drugs & self-improvement scams back in the 90's in the Bay Area. You get some charismatic drug dealers, throw in whatever pseudo-profound quasi-religious beliefs are popular at the moment, and include a few techniques that have some kind of effect (like hyperventilation) and presto! You can charge people $$$ for your "classes" and then sell them MDMA at your house party later on. My friend spun out of control, started abusing nitrous oxide, lost his job, his girlfriend (who was in the same group of druggies), and his mind. He wound up wandering the streets of Berkeley wrapped in a blanket for a few years. His "spiritual" druggie friends abandoned him. So one the one hand, it is good that we are not criminalizing drugs themselves, but on the other, it really is a big challenge to integrate these powerful chemicals into our lives, our communities, and our ways of healing each other.

jotm 4y ago
Yeah, I've started buying some drugs and had to deal with actual "junkies"... and it's been rather eye opening. I can see why they just blanket ban stuff. It seems many, if not most, people, just can't control themselves. Ironic, since I've got major self-control issues myself. But seeing someone use stimulants for relaxation, take a week's worth of it in 3 hours, then beg for more, that's insane. And a few kept trying to give me advice on how to "properly" use them. It couldn't fit in their heads that I am not in it for the high (which is shit imo). I guess it affects "normal" people differently. It is hard for those who can benefit from all the great medicine out there. I wish I could get a licence to use anything at my own responsibility, I don't use official healthcare anyway (I'm glad I can get treated if I break an arm or get into a car accident, but beyond that... useless). Why am I risking prison time for trying to fix myself and make my life better?

goldenkey 4y ago

They can just as easily cause mental illness. Marijuana can cause psychosis [1] but the cannabis lobby pretty much won and there's nothing on the packaging indicating this risk. Cannabis is involved in approximately 50% of psychosis, schizophrenia, and schizophreniform psychosis cases. Thats significant, wouldn't you say? In the same vein, DMT raped my brain and I felt like a fucking husk for two years after breaking through. These things are oversold. We should legalize them, but lets not kid ourselves about how potent and powerful these substances are.

germinalphrase 4y ago
“ Cannabis is involved in approximately 50% of psychosis, schizophrenia, and schizophreniform psychosis cases. Thats significant, wouldn't you say?” Maybe, maybe not. Nicotine was (is?) a very common self-medication for schizophrenia. So much so that it became a trope in movies, etc (e.g. “Clean, Shaven”). If a majority of people with schizophrenia smoked cigarettes, would we argue that nicotine is implicated in the development of that condition? My instinct is certainly that you’re right, but the direction of causality could simply be backwards too.
- goldenkey 4y ago
  Thank you for highlighting the issue of correlation vs causality vs backwards causality. Nicotine is an antipsychotic, so psychosis generally leads to nicotine use as it's much more user-friendly than prescription antipsychotics. About the movie tropes, nicotine is an acetylcholinergic agent similar to caffeine. These agents act as nootropic stimulants hence the movie tropes. Both natural and synthetic insecticides have been known to poison people due to their potent acetylcholinergic activity. [1] THC is a different beast. It's well accepted that THC is psychedelic enough to bring out latent schizophrenia. What most folks don't know about is the temporary psychosis it can cause. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organophosphate_poisoning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organophosphate_poisoning
curun1r 4y ago
> Cannabis is involved in approximately 50% of psychosis, schizophrenia, and schizophreniform psychosis cases. Thats significant, wouldn't you say? Absolutely not. Alcohol is involved in 60% of the snake bites in the US. It’s easy to see the causal link. But that isn’t a reason to avoid alcohol or that alcohol puts you at a significant risk of being bitten by a snake. And that’s because alcohol consumption is common and snake bites are rare. Similarly, cannabis consumption is common and the conditions you list are rare. Even if there is a causal link there, and that’s a big if, that’s not a reason to avoid cannabis. There’s no reason to assume or even worry about being in the sub-1% group.