4 ms·

Money laundering is not a real crime. KYC/AML is a violation of the 4th Amendment.

by dannyw 5y ago

simulate-me 5y ago
Where is the right form a corporation and to run a bank enshrined in the constitution?
- melony 5y ago
  There should be, it is a failure of the founding fathers that they did not forsee the importance of finance. I honestly expected better from Franklin.
  - idrios 5y ago
    Don't blame Franklin, the founding fathers set up a great governmental architecture with plug-in support via constitutional amendments, a legislative body for authoring new code, and a judicial system for integration testing our code of laws. They foresaw that there would be much they could not foresee and gave ample means of updating the constitution. Just now it's been 250 years, it's rife with feature bloat and spaghetti code where small changes have unforeseen consequences, and our legislature is afraid to touch the code despite our many, egregious, surmounting problems.
    - PlanckMeasure80 5y ago
      Where can I subscribe to more code allegories?
      - idrios 4y ago
        I don't have more but the government for makes a really good one. Someone on here once described our laws as being written in a very advanced programming language, where they are upheld based on intent rather than exact wording.
credit_guy 5y ago
It does not work like that. Money laundering is outlawed by the US Code Title 18, and as such it is the law of the land. If someone contests it, for example based on the 4th Amendment, and the issue gets to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court overturns that provision, then, yes money laundering becomes a non-crime. Until then, it is a crime. Of course, you are free to petition your representative, or to just contact the EFF foundation, or pick any of a large number of ways to push your opinion. But other people have their own opinions too. And the outcome of the collective opinion as of now is that money laundering is a crime.
- credit_guy 5y ago
  Replying to myself here. Maybe I jumped the gun. The OP claimed that money laundering is not a crime, and that is patently false. However, maybe he simply meant that the application of the KYC/AML regulations may result in violations of the 4th amendment. In other words people getting their assets seized by the government, without the government demonstrating probable cause. Upon further reflection, I have to admit that such an outcome cannot be ruled out. The government itself would not seize the assets of the suspect, but the banks subject to the KYC/AML regulations may freeze their accounts when they see red flags. The end result, as seen from the suspect's point of view is the same. To be honest, I don't feel very comfortable about this. It does feel a bit like the government is indirectly seizing assets without a warrant. I will leave my comment without any conclusion, because I don't have any to share.

Money laundering is not a real crime. KYC/AML is a violation of the 4th Amendment.

by dannyw 5y ago

Money laundering is not a real crime. KYC/AML is a violation of the 4th Amendment.

simulate-me 5y ago

Where is the right form a corporation and to run a bank enshrined in the constitution?

melony 5y ago
There should be, it is a failure of the founding fathers that they did not forsee the importance of finance. I honestly expected better from Franklin.
- idrios 5y ago
  Don't blame Franklin, the founding fathers set up a great governmental architecture with plug-in support via constitutional amendments, a legislative body for authoring new code, and a judicial system for integration testing our code of laws. They foresaw that there would be much they could not foresee and gave ample means of updating the constitution. Just now it's been 250 years, it's rife with feature bloat and spaghetti code where small changes have unforeseen consequences, and our legislature is afraid to touch the code despite our many, egregious, surmounting problems.
  - PlanckMeasure80 5y ago
    Where can I subscribe to more code allegories?
    - idrios 4y ago
      I don't have more but the government for makes a really good one. Someone on here once described our laws as being written in a very advanced programming language, where they are upheld based on intent rather than exact wording.

credit_guy 5y ago

It does not work like that. Money laundering is outlawed by the US Code Title 18, and as such it is the law of the land. If someone contests it, for example based on the 4th Amendment, and the issue gets to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court overturns that provision, then, yes money laundering becomes a non-crime. Until then, it is a crime. Of course, you are free to petition your representative, or to just contact the EFF foundation, or pick any of a large number of ways to push your opinion. But other people have their own opinions too. And the outcome of the collective opinion as of now is that money laundering is a crime.

credit_guy 5y ago
Replying to myself here. Maybe I jumped the gun. The OP claimed that money laundering is not a crime, and that is patently false. However, maybe he simply meant that the application of the KYC/AML regulations may result in violations of the 4th amendment. In other words people getting their assets seized by the government, without the government demonstrating probable cause. Upon further reflection, I have to admit that such an outcome cannot be ruled out. The government itself would not seize the assets of the suspect, but the banks subject to the KYC/AML regulations may freeze their accounts when they see red flags. The end result, as seen from the suspect's point of view is the same. To be honest, I don't feel very comfortable about this. It does feel a bit like the government is indirectly seizing assets without a warrant. I will leave my comment without any conclusion, because I don't have any to share.