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If you are unfamiliar with font technology/design, it is hard to emphasize just how much work must have went into producing this font. Take a look at all the di

If you are unfamiliar with font technology/design, it is hard to emphasize just how much work must have went into producing this font. Take a look at all the different variable axes Roboto Flex supports [1]. I have never seen so many axes in a variable font. I cannot imagine how much effort went into developing and testing this font; this is incredible work by Font Bureau. [1] https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Roboto+Flex?query=roboto#type-tester https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Roboto+Flex?query=roboto#t...

melony 4y ago
Are they generating these parametrically with linear algebra transforms or are they all designed by hand?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jonpalmisc 4y ago
  In general, variable fonts work by defining multiple "masters" that can be interpolated between. While I'm not sure if Glyphs was used to create this font in particular, this page from Glyphs' documentation summarizes how the process works: https://glyphsapp.com/learn/creating-a-variable-font https://glyphsapp.com/learn/creating-a-variable-font
- davelab6 4y ago
  All designed by hand.
fooey 4y ago
Since the only thing that even renders in Firefox is Normal 400, something somewhere maybe could have used some more testing https://i.imgur.com/dPrjDZZ.png https://i.imgur.com/dPrjDZZ.png edit: @googlefonts says they do not currently support Variable Fonts for Windows Firefox users https://twitter.com/googlefonts/status/1522775267852181504 https://twitter.com/googlefonts/status/1522775267852181504 > Currently our API doesn't serve any VFs to Windows Firefox users due to a bug in windows DirectWrite mishandling the MVAR table. We are investigating what % of API Windows Firefox users now experience the bug, as it has been fixed in newer versions of Windows 10.
- beart 4y ago
  Hmm, I'm seeing the same thing.
- CharlesW 4y ago
  Roboto Flex appears to work correctly in Firefox 100 on macOS. caniuse reports that Firefox has supported variable fonts since 2018: https://caniuse.com/variable-fonts https://caniuse.com/variable-fonts EDIT: Firefox's variable fonts support depends on OS support, and so requires at least Windows 10 or macOS 10.13 on the desktop. Apparently, variable fonts support on Linux is "complicated". https://v-fonts.com/support https://v-fonts.com/support
  - runarberg 4y ago
    I’m on Ubuntu 21.10 and I know firefox supports at least the weight, slant, condense and italic axis (although there is some weird interoperability issues between the three browsers on how the italic axis)
    - davelab6 4y ago
      It's Windows Firefox only
  - fooey 4y ago
    I'm on Windows 11 and only Normal 400 is working in Firefox 100 Stable, Firefox 101.0b3 Developer Edition, Tor 11.0.10 (FF 91.8.0esr), and Tor 11.0.11 (FF 91.9.0esr) It does work in both Chrome and Edge, so I don't think it's a general OS issue
    - tim-- 4y ago
      Chrome renders text differently to Firefox. Chrome uses Skia: https://www.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/graphics-and-skia/ https://www.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/graphic... Firefox uses the Windows DirectWrite APIs. This means that Firefox leans into the support that Windows has for variable fonts, and that was dicey until a few releases ago.
jimmySixDOF 4y ago
Axes are what make variable fonts so interesting and I hope to see this include proper depth and outline slider effects and such that are useful in 3D use cases. Also here's a good font tracking resource where I hope to see these features one day [1] : [1] https://v-fonts.com/ https://v-fonts.com/
neilpanchal 4y ago
I can totally attest. I worked on a typeface (Berkeley Mono [1]) for better half a decade. Have 1 variable axis (wght) and only 4 fixed cuts, approx 450 glyphs. It’s one of those things that I can only continue to work on because of an internal drive and personal passion/enjoyment; otherwise it requires a lot of time and funding. Google and Apple can do that. For those who haven’t delved into typography, changes that you make to a single glyph often has cascading and recursive effects to the entire 450 set of glyphs. Change the shoulder of ‘n’? Now, you must go and update similar glyphs for cohesiveness u, h, o, p, q, m, etc. Now the fitting is messed up. So change 100 more glyphs. Oh wait, the entire cut looks off. Should I proceed and move on, hope for optical satisfaction in future? Or is this the wrong hill to die on and undo everything? There is a lot of automation involved and wrote a ton of code, use components, plugins, etc. to automate as much as possible. The problem with typeface design is the toxic (or magical!) mix of subjectivity and objectivity. Some things just has to be optically evaluated and have to trust what your eyes lie. Needless to say, Roboto is one of a kind project and insane amount of work. Variable axes require a tremendous amount of testing, often non-linear interpolation and endless adjustments. [1] https://berkeleymono.com https://berkeleymono.com
- _fat_santa 4y ago
  Would it be fair to say that Roboto (all typefaces) is the most complex/comprehensive typeface ever created?
  - alanbernstein 4y ago
    I'm not sure how, exactly, the term typeface is defined, but I think metafont has to be in the running for that title. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metafont https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metafont
  - neilpanchal 4y ago
    I think Noto: https://fonts.google.com/noto https://fonts.google.com/noto
  - bsimpson 4y ago
    There are also fonts that exist just to show off variable fonts, like Amstelvar and Decovar. There's another crazy one that starts with an R: Recombinant or something.

melony 4y ago

Are they generating these parametrically with linear algebra transforms or are they all designed by hand?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jonpalmisc 4y ago
In general, variable fonts work by defining multiple "masters" that can be interpolated between. While I'm not sure if Glyphs was used to create this font in particular, this page from Glyphs' documentation summarizes how the process works: https://glyphsapp.com/learn/creating-a-variable-font https://glyphsapp.com/learn/creating-a-variable-font
davelab6 4y ago
All designed by hand.

fooey 4y ago

Since the only thing that even renders in Firefox is Normal 400, something somewhere maybe could have used some more testing https://i.imgur.com/dPrjDZZ.png https://i.imgur.com/dPrjDZZ.png edit: @googlefonts says they do not currently support Variable Fonts for Windows Firefox users https://twitter.com/googlefonts/status/1522775267852181504 https://twitter.com/googlefonts/status/1522775267852181504 > Currently our API doesn't serve any VFs to Windows Firefox users due to a bug in windows DirectWrite mishandling the MVAR table. We are investigating what % of API Windows Firefox users now experience the bug, as it has been fixed in newer versions of Windows 10.

beart 4y ago
Hmm, I'm seeing the same thing.
CharlesW 4y ago
Roboto Flex appears to work correctly in Firefox 100 on macOS. caniuse reports that Firefox has supported variable fonts since 2018: https://caniuse.com/variable-fonts https://caniuse.com/variable-fonts EDIT: Firefox's variable fonts support depends on OS support, and so requires at least Windows 10 or macOS 10.13 on the desktop. Apparently, variable fonts support on Linux is "complicated". https://v-fonts.com/support https://v-fonts.com/support
- runarberg 4y ago
  I’m on Ubuntu 21.10 and I know firefox supports at least the weight, slant, condense and italic axis (although there is some weird interoperability issues between the three browsers on how the italic axis)
  - davelab6 4y ago
    It's Windows Firefox only
- fooey 4y ago
  I'm on Windows 11 and only Normal 400 is working in Firefox 100 Stable, Firefox 101.0b3 Developer Edition, Tor 11.0.10 (FF 91.8.0esr), and Tor 11.0.11 (FF 91.9.0esr) It does work in both Chrome and Edge, so I don't think it's a general OS issue
  - tim-- 4y ago
    Chrome renders text differently to Firefox. Chrome uses Skia: https://www.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/graphics-and-skia/ https://www.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/graphic... Firefox uses the Windows DirectWrite APIs. This means that Firefox leans into the support that Windows has for variable fonts, and that was dicey until a few releases ago.

jimmySixDOF 4y ago

Axes are what make variable fonts so interesting and I hope to see this include proper depth and outline slider effects and such that are useful in 3D use cases. Also here's a good font tracking resource where I hope to see these features one day [1] : [1] https://v-fonts.com/ https://v-fonts.com/

neilpanchal 4y ago

I can totally attest. I worked on a typeface (Berkeley Mono [1]) for better half a decade. Have 1 variable axis (wght) and only 4 fixed cuts, approx 450 glyphs. It’s one of those things that I can only continue to work on because of an internal drive and personal passion/enjoyment; otherwise it requires a lot of time and funding. Google and Apple can do that. For those who haven’t delved into typography, changes that you make to a single glyph often has cascading and recursive effects to the entire 450 set of glyphs. Change the shoulder of ‘n’? Now, you must go and update similar glyphs for cohesiveness u, h, o, p, q, m, etc. Now the fitting is messed up. So change 100 more glyphs. Oh wait, the entire cut looks off. Should I proceed and move on, hope for optical satisfaction in future? Or is this the wrong hill to die on and undo everything? There is a lot of automation involved and wrote a ton of code, use components, plugins, etc. to automate as much as possible. The problem with typeface design is the toxic (or magical!) mix of subjectivity and objectivity. Some things just has to be optically evaluated and have to trust what your eyes lie. Needless to say, Roboto is one of a kind project and insane amount of work. Variable axes require a tremendous amount of testing, often non-linear interpolation and endless adjustments. [1] https://berkeleymono.com https://berkeleymono.com

_fat_santa 4y ago
Would it be fair to say that Roboto (all typefaces) is the most complex/comprehensive typeface ever created?
- alanbernstein 4y ago
  I'm not sure how, exactly, the term typeface is defined, but I think metafont has to be in the running for that title. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metafont https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metafont
- neilpanchal 4y ago
  I think Noto: https://fonts.google.com/noto https://fonts.google.com/noto
- bsimpson 4y ago
  There are also fonts that exist just to show off variable fonts, like Amstelvar and Decovar. There's another crazy one that starts with an R: Recombinant or something.