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No, its mostly because it can't be digested at all by humans but are food for bacteria as every cow knows. The benefit of slow digestion by fiber is mostly for

No, its mostly because it can't be digested at all by humans but are food for bacteria as every cow knows. The benefit of slow digestion by fiber is mostly for diabetes control. Fixing microflora (and hence influencing metagenome) however, is not that simple. You wont feed good bacteria only, but pathogenic too if you have them overpopulated, which will make things worst. You can't easily replace those with new ones coming from food because of the acid barrier. You might think that lowering it down is good idea, but its totally not, because you will soon find new neighbor h. pylory which can cause all kinds of shit, along with having less nutrientes available by stealing and unoptimal pH environment. Regular probiotics are usually meaningless (influencing environment like fart in the wind). Eating carnivoir diet makes your acid stronger which further strenghtens your defences (only great if you don't have invaders). Then, this is dynamic - good guys can become bad in specific context. The best way to improve your microbiome health is to find FT surogate, some great probiotic like Visbiome or VSL3, eat fermented foods, use prebiotics, and obviously dont use antibiotics in relaxed manner (save them for emergencies, like once in decade, and even then help flora repopulation and good luck with fungi proliferation) and do not remove your apendix just for the sake of it. Funny thing nobody mentiond antibiotics and how harmful they are. Yes, they can save your life but poping them every now and then borders to malpractice. I am a software architect, not a doctor, but machine is a machine.

TaupeRanger 4y ago
And yet, there is no evidence at all that people who take more antibiotics live shorter or worse quality lives...so does any of this really matter at all?
- sinsterizme 4y ago
  Kindly don’t say stuff like this. After taking antibiotics I had severe, severe anxiety that lasted months along with insomnia. Now the anxiety is mostly gone but I’m still dealing with some sleep issues. If you google antibiotics anxiety microbiome you can read a bunch of studies.
  - KennyBlanken 4y ago
    Kindly do not cite personal anecdotes as evidence.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - majkinetor 4y ago
      Kindly do your own research instead producing spam answers.
  - TaupeRanger 4y ago
    Sorry. Anecdotes are not useful or instructive here. No studies show a causal effect of antibiotics on anxiety. In fact, it wouldn't be surprising if people who needed medical treatment (causing an antibiotic Rx) later had anxiety due to the nature of their health condition.
    - sinsterizme 4y ago
      There are quite a few studies done on mice where they show this.
      - wewtyflakes 4y ago
        Okay, what are they?
        sinsterizme 4y ago
        - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26580313/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26580313/ - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35027429/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35027429/ - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35243408/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35243408/ - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6879739/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6879739/ - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8000835/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8000835/ - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33676528/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33676528/ Note, some of these are studies of humans and some are on mice
- Retric 4y ago
  Even relatively short term use of antibiotics can result in digestive issues lasting multiple years. Auto-brewery syndrome for example is linked to antibiotics and can seemingly persist until treatment by antifungals.
  - TaupeRanger 4y ago
    Of course. Yet still, there is no evidence that these people would live shorter or worse lives than if they hadn't taken the antibiotic. What if the infection they took the antibiotics for had caused more harm than auto-brewery syndrome? What if the unchecked infection caused problems that couldn't simply be solved by antifungals? My point was just that the person I responded to seemed to imply that antibiotics are very bad except in cases where they save your life, which is not really supported by current medical knowledge.
    - dotopotoro 4y ago
      Couple of comments replied mentioning studies in this area, and you dismiss them completely (i.e. you show no indication of any value assigned on points made). Seems like you have very strong beliefs/faith/stake in using antibiotics as tic toc.
      - TaupeRanger 4y ago
        Literally none. Please point out a study done in humans that was posted. I'll read it to see if a causal effect is shown in humans.
        Retric 4y ago
        There are a lot of such studies but if you really just one one example I will pick one at random: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00248-007-9356-5 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00248-007-9356-5 Let me guess you’re going to move the goalpost.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- nikkwong 4y ago
  Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. We have pretty strong data that suggests that antibiotic exposure is associated with negative health outcomes. For example, patients who had undergone antibiotic exposure within a 6 month period preceding their admission to the ICU had a 20% increase in mortality rate. Another study [1] I just found showed that older women who had been exposed to antibiotics for => 2 months had increased risk of all-cause mortality and cardiovascular mortality (hazard ratio 1.49). Interestingly, if they had also been exposed to antibiotics in middle-adulthood, their mortality rate was even higher; which may suggest that antibiotic exposure permanently impairs the microbiome. Paper's conclusion: "Long-term use of antibiotics in late adulthood may be a risk factor for all-cause and cardiovascular mortality. The unfavorable effect of antibiotic exposure for subsequent risks of deaths due to chronic diseases needs to be considered." [1]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31842690/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31842690/
  - Teever 4y ago
    All I'm seeing from the two examples you gave are situations where sick people got sicker and died. It's almost trite to say it at this point but correlation is not causation.
  - bawolff 4y ago
    > For example, patients who had undergone antibiotic exposure within a 6 month period preceding their admission to the ICU had a 20% increase in mortality rate. That seems like a very obvious case of correlation vs causation (people who need medicine are more likely to die than those who dont)
- refurb 4y ago
  That’s like saying “people who get cancer drugs die earlier”.
  - TaupeRanger 4y ago
    Who did you think you were replying to? I implied no such thing and the comparison to my comment doesn't even make sense.
- majkinetor 4y ago
  You know where half of the worlds antibiotics go to? As growth promotion on animals. Growth promotion => obesity => metabolic syndrome => diabetes => shorter life (diabetes basically being accelerated aging disease) Please, this should be primary school knowledge nowadays.
  - TaupeRanger 4y ago
    I was obviously referring to humans taking them, just as the person I responded to was. Please.
    - majkinetor 4y ago
      Humans eat animals. Humans are animals. Please.
      - TaupeRanger 4y ago
        Try to keep up. The person I responded to was specifically talking about humans ingesting antibiotic medicines, so my claim was responding directly to that behavior. If you want to try to prove that cows taking antibiotics makes humans more obese than they otherwise would be, that's fine but it has nothing to do with the original claim about human medicines.
hammock 4y ago
Can visbiome or vsl3 be safely taken by just anyone? What are the risks?
- TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
  I take visbiome and I’m just anyone. Not every day, though. It’s expensive and not needed. Once per week is what I do but I’m no expert.
  - majkinetor 4y ago
    It depends on context. There is no 'once a week' method.
- majkinetor 4y ago
  Yes. Risks are basically next to 0, you can get bloated eventually or something trivial like that. This should have been one of the mandatory COVID prevention methods.
KennyBlanken 4y ago
> I am a software architect, not a doctor Uh huh > some great probiotic like Visbiome or VSL3 Sure are a lot of "you watered down the product" and false advertising lawsuits against these guys.
- majkinetor 4y ago
  All pharmacies have lawsuits. Please stop and GTFO.
  - wewtyflakes 4y ago
    This seems like an overly hostile response to someone who expressed skepticism.
ntlk 4y ago
Saving antibiotics for once in a decade emergencies sounds nice until you find yourself getting painful recurring UTIs several times a year.
- majkinetor 4y ago
  If you get UTIs serveral times a year, you should seriously rethink your life habits. By doing that you will temporarily fix one disease and pay the price having array of other.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

TaupeRanger 4y ago

And yet, there is no evidence at all that people who take more antibiotics live shorter or worse quality lives...so does any of this really matter at all?

sinsterizme 4y ago
Kindly don’t say stuff like this. After taking antibiotics I had severe, severe anxiety that lasted months along with insomnia. Now the anxiety is mostly gone but I’m still dealing with some sleep issues. If you google antibiotics anxiety microbiome you can read a bunch of studies.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  Kindly do not cite personal anecdotes as evidence.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - majkinetor 4y ago
    Kindly do your own research instead producing spam answers.
- TaupeRanger 4y ago
  Sorry. Anecdotes are not useful or instructive here. No studies show a causal effect of antibiotics on anxiety. In fact, it wouldn't be surprising if people who needed medical treatment (causing an antibiotic Rx) later had anxiety due to the nature of their health condition.
  - sinsterizme 4y ago
    There are quite a few studies done on mice where they show this.
    - wewtyflakes 4y ago
      Okay, what are they?
      - sinsterizme 4y ago
        - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26580313/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26580313/ - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35027429/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35027429/ - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35243408/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35243408/ - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6879739/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6879739/ - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8000835/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8000835/ - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33676528/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33676528/ Note, some of these are studies of humans and some are on mice
Retric 4y ago
Even relatively short term use of antibiotics can result in digestive issues lasting multiple years. Auto-brewery syndrome for example is linked to antibiotics and can seemingly persist until treatment by antifungals.
- TaupeRanger 4y ago
  Of course. Yet still, there is no evidence that these people would live shorter or worse lives than if they hadn't taken the antibiotic. What if the infection they took the antibiotics for had caused more harm than auto-brewery syndrome? What if the unchecked infection caused problems that couldn't simply be solved by antifungals? My point was just that the person I responded to seemed to imply that antibiotics are very bad except in cases where they save your life, which is not really supported by current medical knowledge.
  - dotopotoro 4y ago
    Couple of comments replied mentioning studies in this area, and you dismiss them completely (i.e. you show no indication of any value assigned on points made). Seems like you have very strong beliefs/faith/stake in using antibiotics as tic toc.
    - TaupeRanger 4y ago
      Literally none. Please point out a study done in humans that was posted. I'll read it to see if a causal effect is shown in humans.
      - Retric 4y ago
        There are a lot of such studies but if you really just one one example I will pick one at random: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00248-007-9356-5 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00248-007-9356-5 Let me guess you’re going to move the goalpost.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
nikkwong 4y ago
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. We have pretty strong data that suggests that antibiotic exposure is associated with negative health outcomes. For example, patients who had undergone antibiotic exposure within a 6 month period preceding their admission to the ICU had a 20% increase in mortality rate. Another study [1] I just found showed that older women who had been exposed to antibiotics for => 2 months had increased risk of all-cause mortality and cardiovascular mortality (hazard ratio 1.49). Interestingly, if they had also been exposed to antibiotics in middle-adulthood, their mortality rate was even higher; which may suggest that antibiotic exposure permanently impairs the microbiome. Paper's conclusion: "Long-term use of antibiotics in late adulthood may be a risk factor for all-cause and cardiovascular mortality. The unfavorable effect of antibiotic exposure for subsequent risks of deaths due to chronic diseases needs to be considered." [1]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31842690/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31842690/
- Teever 4y ago
  All I'm seeing from the two examples you gave are situations where sick people got sicker and died. It's almost trite to say it at this point but correlation is not causation.
- bawolff 4y ago
  > For example, patients who had undergone antibiotic exposure within a 6 month period preceding their admission to the ICU had a 20% increase in mortality rate. That seems like a very obvious case of correlation vs causation (people who need medicine are more likely to die than those who dont)
refurb 4y ago
That’s like saying “people who get cancer drugs die earlier”.
- TaupeRanger 4y ago
  Who did you think you were replying to? I implied no such thing and the comparison to my comment doesn't even make sense.
majkinetor 4y ago
You know where half of the worlds antibiotics go to? As growth promotion on animals. Growth promotion => obesity => metabolic syndrome => diabetes => shorter life (diabetes basically being accelerated aging disease) Please, this should be primary school knowledge nowadays.
- TaupeRanger 4y ago
  I was obviously referring to humans taking them, just as the person I responded to was. Please.
  - majkinetor 4y ago
    Humans eat animals. Humans are animals. Please.
    - TaupeRanger 4y ago
      Try to keep up. The person I responded to was specifically talking about humans ingesting antibiotic medicines, so my claim was responding directly to that behavior. If you want to try to prove that cows taking antibiotics makes humans more obese than they otherwise would be, that's fine but it has nothing to do with the original claim about human medicines.

hammock 4y ago

Can visbiome or vsl3 be safely taken by just anyone? What are the risks?

TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
I take visbiome and I’m just anyone. Not every day, though. It’s expensive and not needed. Once per week is what I do but I’m no expert.
- majkinetor 4y ago
  It depends on context. There is no 'once a week' method.
majkinetor 4y ago
Yes. Risks are basically next to 0, you can get bloated eventually or something trivial like that. This should have been one of the mandatory COVID prevention methods.

KennyBlanken 4y ago

> I am a software architect, not a doctor Uh huh > some great probiotic like Visbiome or VSL3 Sure are a lot of "you watered down the product" and false advertising lawsuits against these guys.

majkinetor 4y ago
All pharmacies have lawsuits. Please stop and GTFO.
- wewtyflakes 4y ago
  This seems like an overly hostile response to someone who expressed skepticism.

ntlk 4y ago

Saving antibiotics for once in a decade emergencies sounds nice until you find yourself getting painful recurring UTIs several times a year.

majkinetor 4y ago
If you get UTIs serveral times a year, you should seriously rethink your life habits. By doing that you will temporarily fix one disease and pay the price having array of other.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]