3 ms·

I think its possible to make an argument for lots of things, in the name of safety. That it should be impossible to have anonymity online, etc because of child

I think its possible to make an argument for lots of things, in the name of safety. That it should be impossible to have anonymity online, etc because of child abuse, or terrorism, or some other action. The safety argument cannot balance the fact that we also need freedom of speech and thought. We are heading into a world where the power balance is going to become so wildly asymmetrical - the government will know everything about you and will have the power to act against you instantly, automatically - it will change us. It will be dehumanising - you will have to watch your back. If you don't already. We will have to conform to have a job, be able to travel, receive our govcoin vouchers, etc. We are literally installing an even worse citizen score system than China, that no one would ever want, but each step of the way we are convinced by some spurious and limited 'safety' argument. This misses the whole picture. And if you think that the government won't act against you once it has the power to do so, you are dreaming. Everyone seems to think that government is a force for good, as opposed to being the operators of the slavery system we find ourselves in. Some of us try to kid ourselves that we are free, while we hand over 40% of our income for government to service the interest on the debt that they have accrued on our behalf. I don't. Anyway - I say what I see, no one likes my message, everyone seems blind to the points I raise, or wants to ignore them - what can I do? I hope I'm wrong.

pigtailgirl 5y ago
you might be right you might be wrong - however I suspect you'll find there are many of us out here who are just not willing to let ourselves get so worked up about such a ridged view of a possible future - doubt you'll find many on HN who are ignorant to the signs - i'm certain many are concerned about the trends - that doesn't meant people necessarily disagree with your thought - we just may disagree with your outlook - myself - i'm inclined to believe I - my friends- and fine folks like you are thoughtful enough to deal with it in the moment - even if that took a civil war - i'm not inclined to believe at some point i am going to lose touch with reality - nor am i inclined to believe my government is going to turn against me without noticing - for what it's worth i don't think you need to take it so personally - lots of people are concerned - just not everyone is freaking out (yet)- maybe you can somehow make peace with that? :=)
- autoexec 5y ago
  > nor am i inclined to believe my government is going to turn against me without noticing - Are you in the US? If so then out of curiosity, considering we have published research demonstrating that the average American has effectively zero influence on policy and the only groups with representation are extremely wealthy individuals and corporations, and we've already seen the US government engaging in the warrantless surveillance of every last American, the continued push for more extreme uses of gerrymandering and other forms of voter suppression, police executing citizens in the streets for minor infractions, the promotion of lies and misinformation encouraging citizens to get sick or seek ineffective treatments during a global pandemic, the mass incarceration of Americans at a rate far beyond any other nation on the planet, along with continuous efforts to weaken and ignore our constitutional rights, just how much longer do you think it'll be before the notice that they've turned against you arrives?
- verisimi 5y ago
  Thank you for your thoughts and concern. Let me say I am at peace with myself, I've come to terms with life, mortality. I do fear that the future will be neo-feudal, techno-slavery very shortly though, if people don't start to push back against the governance system + the corporations that run it. I differ on a few points to you. I don't think the government has turned, I think it has always been this bad! It has always been full of parasitic middlemen that look to make a fortune off the people doing the actual work - people in government are the worst of us, while pretending, nay demanding, that they are portrayed as 'the best of us'. Anyway, I think its that we are at the end of ... something - technology + political immorality seem to be combining in a potentially unpleasant way. Also, I think the governance approach that has been taken is very incremental - the plans are slow and stealthy - we are disclosed a bit at a time, but never so much that it causes a rebellion. We became aware of 3 letter agencies, then that they were sometimes nefarious, then that they were spying on us, then we had travel constraints, camera everywhere passes to travel, etc, etc - the direction of travel is only one way - towards technocratic governance. None of those steps on their own tripped enough alarm bells to prompt anything more than hand wringing - but if you look back over the years - say 20 years - you'd never believe where we are now. Nor how we got here. That's the power of incrementalism.
johndfsgdgdfg 5y ago
> I think its possible to make an argument for lots of things, in the name of safety. I think the word you are looking for is `Nanny State` [1]. People's opinions on issues like this always tend to be based on political tribalism. If it's from my political party, then they are so amazing that they care about other human beings so much. If it's a political party I am opposed to, how dare they infringe on our freedom. It's very hard to find good faith discussion. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanny_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanny_state

pigtailgirl 5y ago

you might be right you might be wrong - however I suspect you'll find there are many of us out here who are just not willing to let ourselves get so worked up about such a ridged view of a possible future - doubt you'll find many on HN who are ignorant to the signs - i'm certain many are concerned about the trends - that doesn't meant people necessarily disagree with your thought - we just may disagree with your outlook - myself - i'm inclined to believe I - my friends- and fine folks like you are thoughtful enough to deal with it in the moment - even if that took a civil war - i'm not inclined to believe at some point i am going to lose touch with reality - nor am i inclined to believe my government is going to turn against me without noticing - for what it's worth i don't think you need to take it so personally - lots of people are concerned - just not everyone is freaking out (yet)- maybe you can somehow make peace with that? :=)

autoexec 5y ago
> nor am i inclined to believe my government is going to turn against me without noticing - Are you in the US? If so then out of curiosity, considering we have published research demonstrating that the average American has effectively zero influence on policy and the only groups with representation are extremely wealthy individuals and corporations, and we've already seen the US government engaging in the warrantless surveillance of every last American, the continued push for more extreme uses of gerrymandering and other forms of voter suppression, police executing citizens in the streets for minor infractions, the promotion of lies and misinformation encouraging citizens to get sick or seek ineffective treatments during a global pandemic, the mass incarceration of Americans at a rate far beyond any other nation on the planet, along with continuous efforts to weaken and ignore our constitutional rights, just how much longer do you think it'll be before the notice that they've turned against you arrives?
verisimi 5y ago
Thank you for your thoughts and concern. Let me say I am at peace with myself, I've come to terms with life, mortality. I do fear that the future will be neo-feudal, techno-slavery very shortly though, if people don't start to push back against the governance system + the corporations that run it. I differ on a few points to you. I don't think the government has turned, I think it has always been this bad! It has always been full of parasitic middlemen that look to make a fortune off the people doing the actual work - people in government are the worst of us, while pretending, nay demanding, that they are portrayed as 'the best of us'. Anyway, I think its that we are at the end of ... something - technology + political immorality seem to be combining in a potentially unpleasant way. Also, I think the governance approach that has been taken is very incremental - the plans are slow and stealthy - we are disclosed a bit at a time, but never so much that it causes a rebellion. We became aware of 3 letter agencies, then that they were sometimes nefarious, then that they were spying on us, then we had travel constraints, camera everywhere passes to travel, etc, etc - the direction of travel is only one way - towards technocratic governance. None of those steps on their own tripped enough alarm bells to prompt anything more than hand wringing - but if you look back over the years - say 20 years - you'd never believe where we are now. Nor how we got here. That's the power of incrementalism.

johndfsgdgdfg 5y ago

> I think its possible to make an argument for lots of things, in the name of safety. I think the word you are looking for is `Nanny State` [1]. People's opinions on issues like this always tend to be based on political tribalism. If it's from my political party, then they are so amazing that they care about other human beings so much. If it's a political party I am opposed to, how dare they infringe on our freedom. It's very hard to find good faith discussion. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanny_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanny_state