4 ms·

Housing shouldn't be a market? Then how would housing be allocated? The state builds and gives housing to everyone? Maybe you should take a trip to Eastern Eur

by glerk 4y ago

Housing shouldn't be a market? Then how would housing be allocated? The state builds and gives housing to everyone? Maybe you should take a trip to Eastern Europe one of these days to see the final result of what you're advocating. Pros: everyone is given an apartment to live in. Cons: your city's skyline looks like this: https://i.imgur.com/5X1sIeP.jpg https://i.imgur.com/5X1sIeP.jpg "We collectively decide" just means you decide for me. You think you know better than everyone else and want to impose your values on others.

maccard 4y ago
Eastern European cities aren't the only examples. Nordic cities (e.g. Stockholm and Copenhagen) are great examples - they have different problems but people are housed. Cities like Berlin don't have a speculative housing market due to excellent renters rights meaning the majority of people rent long term. Finally, Vienna is the poster child for "how to do social housing".
- glerk 4y ago
  All these cities still have a housing market albeit a more regulated one than your average American city. Housing is still developed and owned by private interest and responds to supply and demand. We could debate the policies of these specific cities (for example, the trade-offs of Berlin's rent control: https://archive.ph/l3i2w https://archive.ph/l3i2w) but that's beyond the point. The parent's position is "housing shouldn't be a market", and I am showing an example of what soviet-style state control over housing looks like in practice.
- Kiro 4y ago
  What is Stockholm a great example of? There's still a housing market with absurd prices and all signs of a bubble. It's impossible to get an apartment in Stockholm unless you have a 20-year waiting time, buy an illegal third-hand contract or have the wealth to buy an apartment. The housing crisis in Sweden is extreme.
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  Almost every major city in Europe has the exact same problems. Or arguably worse, depending on your socioeconomic status. Where this myth of "European cities are great" is coming from I don't know, and I would love to know. >Due to excellent renters rights meaning the majority of people rent long term This backfires spectacularly once you realize landlords continue to hold the reigns and put up huge demands to avoid "bad renters". As long as the rights don't cover the entirety, landlords will continue to pressure renters in different, more obscene ways. And in today's society, renting long term also isn't as great as people make it out to be, when your long term rent is a glorified broom closet and there's a great job opportunity a few cities over.
- adflux 4y ago
  I was in Copenhagen last week and spoke to a dozen people who all agreed that the housing market there is terrible aswell.
m_ke 4y ago
Or it could look like Vienna https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=41VJudBdYXY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=41VJudBdYXY
UncleMeat 4y ago
Is avoiding "skyline is ugly" really worth the enormous cost to society when so many people can barely afford housing? Is that belief system not worth criticism?

by glerk 4y ago

maccard 4y ago

Eastern European cities aren't the only examples. Nordic cities (e.g. Stockholm and Copenhagen) are great examples - they have different problems but people are housed. Cities like Berlin don't have a speculative housing market due to excellent renters rights meaning the majority of people rent long term. Finally, Vienna is the poster child for "how to do social housing".

glerk 4y ago
All these cities still have a housing market albeit a more regulated one than your average American city. Housing is still developed and owned by private interest and responds to supply and demand. We could debate the policies of these specific cities (for example, the trade-offs of Berlin's rent control: https://archive.ph/l3i2w https://archive.ph/l3i2w) but that's beyond the point. The parent's position is "housing shouldn't be a market", and I am showing an example of what soviet-style state control over housing looks like in practice.
Kiro 4y ago
What is Stockholm a great example of? There's still a housing market with absurd prices and all signs of a bubble. It's impossible to get an apartment in Stockholm unless you have a 20-year waiting time, buy an illegal third-hand contract or have the wealth to buy an apartment. The housing crisis in Sweden is extreme.
BlargMcLarg 4y ago
Almost every major city in Europe has the exact same problems. Or arguably worse, depending on your socioeconomic status. Where this myth of "European cities are great" is coming from I don't know, and I would love to know. >Due to excellent renters rights meaning the majority of people rent long term This backfires spectacularly once you realize landlords continue to hold the reigns and put up huge demands to avoid "bad renters". As long as the rights don't cover the entirety, landlords will continue to pressure renters in different, more obscene ways. And in today's society, renting long term also isn't as great as people make it out to be, when your long term rent is a glorified broom closet and there's a great job opportunity a few cities over.
adflux 4y ago
I was in Copenhagen last week and spoke to a dozen people who all agreed that the housing market there is terrible aswell.

m_ke 4y ago

Or it could look like Vienna https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=41VJudBdYXY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=41VJudBdYXY

UncleMeat 4y ago

Is avoiding "skyline is ugly" really worth the enormous cost to society when so many people can barely afford housing? Is that belief system not worth criticism?