5 ms·

The culture is more accepting of LGBTQ these days, so people are more likely to admit it. It's that simple - there's no need to try and psychoanalyze millions o

The culture is more accepting of LGBTQ these days, so people are more likely to admit it. It's that simple - there's no need to try and psychoanalyze millions of people based on your political ideology.

ralusek 4y ago
But you've just done that. The answer is that it's obviously not that simple. What we know is that there has been a large percentage increase in the number of people identifying as queer. One hypothesis is that this is because there was previously a certain percentage of the population who was queer, but the societal cost for identifying as such was sufficiently high so as to prevent them from doing so. It is therefore the lowering of the societal cost for identifying as such that has allowed this percentage of the population that was always queer to freely identify as such. Your explanation is that that is the only factor and it is as simple as that. The hypothesis that you're dismissing is that not only has the societal cost for identifying as queer diminished, but that it has actually transitioned well into a net benefit in many communities (i.e. woke Gen Z, and others). Therefore, many of the people identifying as queer are doing so not because they are inherently queer and now free to identify as such, but rather that they are not actually queer, but see social advantages from identifying as such. The claim here is purportedly substantiated by the fact that the largest increase has been in those low stakes identities such as bisexual or demisexual, wherein the person can basically continue to operate normally as a heterosexual while claiming the social advantages of being queer. Now, as I said, the answer is that this is definitely both. I don't, however, expect you to discuss something like this in good faith, because you seem quite keen on reducing it to your pet conclusion. I'm especially not interested in what I'm anticipating, which are a myriad of claims as to how being queer is still a marked disadvantage. I'm sorry, but within the circles for which we've seen explosive growth in identification, it very much is not.
- suriyaG 4y ago
  I agree that your hypothesis is a possibility. But, what type of advantage does identifying as LGBTQ provide that is not in being a heterosexual?
  - zmgsabst 4y ago
    Over representation and privilege, eg, easier admissions to college or hiring. We haven’t ended bigotry, but under the guidance of Democrats and Leftists, created a new system of bigotry — using euphemisms like “equity”. Which is the same reason White students lie about their race. https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/education/577722-more-than-a-third-of-white-students-lie-about-their/ https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/education/57...
    - creamteeth 4y ago
      The underlying principle of equity is a decent one though. The problem is in how it's implemented: using a person's self-declared identity as an indicator of disadvantage, rather than their actual material conditions. For example if universities would take factors like poverty and access to educational resources into account, rather than using racial identity as a inaccurate proxy for this, they'd likely achieve more equitable outcomes, in helping talented but disadvantaged individuals gain access to higher education.
      - zmgsabst 4y ago
        > The underlying principle of equity is a decent one though. > For example if universities would take factors like poverty and access to educational resources into account, rather than using racial identity as a inaccurate proxy for this That’s equality — as in “equal opportunity” and we had that before “equity” was introduced. By contrast, equity is a fundamentally racist idea which emerged from a collectivist authoritarian view of the world which tries to fix past wrongs between purported “racial groups” by introducing present discrimination to “correct” past discrimination.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- evocatus 4y ago
  I identify as white and demand the accompanying privileges.

ralusek 4y ago

But you've just done that. The answer is that it's obviously not that simple. What we know is that there has been a large percentage increase in the number of people identifying as queer. One hypothesis is that this is because there was previously a certain percentage of the population who was queer, but the societal cost for identifying as such was sufficiently high so as to prevent them from doing so. It is therefore the lowering of the societal cost for identifying as such that has allowed this percentage of the population that was always queer to freely identify as such. Your explanation is that that is the only factor and it is as simple as that. The hypothesis that you're dismissing is that not only has the societal cost for identifying as queer diminished, but that it has actually transitioned well into a net benefit in many communities (i.e. woke Gen Z, and others). Therefore, many of the people identifying as queer are doing so not because they are inherently queer and now free to identify as such, but rather that they are not actually queer, but see social advantages from identifying as such. The claim here is purportedly substantiated by the fact that the largest increase has been in those low stakes identities such as bisexual or demisexual, wherein the person can basically continue to operate normally as a heterosexual while claiming the social advantages of being queer. Now, as I said, the answer is that this is definitely both. I don't, however, expect you to discuss something like this in good faith, because you seem quite keen on reducing it to your pet conclusion. I'm especially not interested in what I'm anticipating, which are a myriad of claims as to how being queer is still a marked disadvantage. I'm sorry, but within the circles for which we've seen explosive growth in identification, it very much is not.

suriyaG 4y ago
I agree that your hypothesis is a possibility. But, what type of advantage does identifying as LGBTQ provide that is not in being a heterosexual?
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  Over representation and privilege, eg, easier admissions to college or hiring. We haven’t ended bigotry, but under the guidance of Democrats and Leftists, created a new system of bigotry — using euphemisms like “equity”. Which is the same reason White students lie about their race. https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/education/577722-more-than-a-third-of-white-students-lie-about-their/ https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/education/57...
  - creamteeth 4y ago
    The underlying principle of equity is a decent one though. The problem is in how it's implemented: using a person's self-declared identity as an indicator of disadvantage, rather than their actual material conditions. For example if universities would take factors like poverty and access to educational resources into account, rather than using racial identity as a inaccurate proxy for this, they'd likely achieve more equitable outcomes, in helping talented but disadvantaged individuals gain access to higher education.
    - zmgsabst 4y ago
      > The underlying principle of equity is a decent one though. > For example if universities would take factors like poverty and access to educational resources into account, rather than using racial identity as a inaccurate proxy for this That’s equality — as in “equal opportunity” and we had that before “equity” was introduced. By contrast, equity is a fundamentally racist idea which emerged from a collectivist authoritarian view of the world which tries to fix past wrongs between purported “racial groups” by introducing present discrimination to “correct” past discrimination.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
evocatus 4y ago
I identify as white and demand the accompanying privileges.