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I don't know why some people just automatically assume that all problematic behavior was done out of desperation. All stealing is just for loaves of bread to fe

I don't know why some people just automatically assume that all problematic behavior was done out of desperation. All stealing is just for loaves of bread to feed a starving family. All street defecation is an act of desperation after a good faith search for a toilet. etc. Are people angels who only behave badly when horrible circumstances leave them with no options? I just don't understand how someone could believe this. It would seem to take a very sheltered life where ideology takes the place of real human experience.

akerl_ 5y ago
Just so we’re clear, your argument is that there’s folks out there who, upon needing to take a shit, think “hmm, I could go to a bathroom, but since nobody will prosecute me for taking off my pants and shitting here on the sidewalk, I’ll do that”? There are certainly people who do bad things because they’re bad people. But yes, on average, people who behave badly are doing so because of limited options, not because they’re really keen on crime.
- civilized 5y ago
  The majority of homeless people are in the grip of drug addiction. They are already doing something illegal, completely unnecessary, and harmful to themselves because it feels good in the moment. So yes, I do think impulsive public defecation is a thing. People are already shooting up in the streets, why not other stuff too? If toilets are sometimes inconvenient, by all means add more, but it won't end the problem.
  - akerl_ 5y ago
    I think if we’re at the point where you think that the majority of homeless people are drug addicts, and that drug addicts are doing something “completely unnecessary because it feels good in the moment”, we’ve bottomed out the conversation.
    - civilized 5y ago
      I had seen some reports that it was a majority. Looking again, I'm seeing more like 30-40% for alcohol and 10-30% for drug abuse. It is very common by almost all accounts. I am not squeamish about pointing out the nature of self-destructive behavior. I don't think it does anyone any favors to ignore things because we are uncomfortable with perceived implications. We can sympathize with drug abusers and their circumstances while recognizing that they are behaving in a self-destructive and often other-destructive way.
      - mlyle 5y ago
        Maybe a lot of homeless poop outside would still happen. Maybe not. But until we make it reasonably possible for them to not poop outside, maybe we shouldn't assume it's all inevitable.
        dismantlethesun 5y ago
        I don’t really SF. Are there public toilets, open storm drains or at least wooded parks for people to use instead? I’m not a stranger to public defecation, it happens a lot in my country but no one would be so shameless as to actually do it in the middle of a paved street or sidewalk.
        mlyle 5y ago
        > open storm drains A lot of time this would put you in a street, or in a private parking lot where ownership would be trying to chase you off. > public toilets Relatively few. > wooded parks Just a few. Not close to everywhere homeless congregate.
        civilized 5y ago
        > A lot of time this would put you in a street, or in a private parking lot where ownership would be trying to chase you off. When it's happening in the middle of the sidewalk, I fear that being inconspicuous is not a primary consideration for those doing it.
nathanaldensr 5y ago
I think you answered your own question at the end of your second paragraph.
mlyle 5y ago
It can be hard enough to find a toilet as someone monied in a big city with a homeless problem. I imagine the homeless have a harder time. It's not surprising that some poop will inevitably end up in the street as a result.

akerl_ 5y ago

Just so we’re clear, your argument is that there’s folks out there who, upon needing to take a shit, think “hmm, I could go to a bathroom, but since nobody will prosecute me for taking off my pants and shitting here on the sidewalk, I’ll do that”? There are certainly people who do bad things because they’re bad people. But yes, on average, people who behave badly are doing so because of limited options, not because they’re really keen on crime.

civilized 5y ago
The majority of homeless people are in the grip of drug addiction. They are already doing something illegal, completely unnecessary, and harmful to themselves because it feels good in the moment. So yes, I do think impulsive public defecation is a thing. People are already shooting up in the streets, why not other stuff too? If toilets are sometimes inconvenient, by all means add more, but it won't end the problem.
- akerl_ 5y ago
  I think if we’re at the point where you think that the majority of homeless people are drug addicts, and that drug addicts are doing something “completely unnecessary because it feels good in the moment”, we’ve bottomed out the conversation.
  - civilized 5y ago
    I had seen some reports that it was a majority. Looking again, I'm seeing more like 30-40% for alcohol and 10-30% for drug abuse. It is very common by almost all accounts. I am not squeamish about pointing out the nature of self-destructive behavior. I don't think it does anyone any favors to ignore things because we are uncomfortable with perceived implications. We can sympathize with drug abusers and their circumstances while recognizing that they are behaving in a self-destructive and often other-destructive way.
    - mlyle 5y ago
      Maybe a lot of homeless poop outside would still happen. Maybe not. But until we make it reasonably possible for them to not poop outside, maybe we shouldn't assume it's all inevitable.
      - dismantlethesun 5y ago
        I don’t really SF. Are there public toilets, open storm drains or at least wooded parks for people to use instead? I’m not a stranger to public defecation, it happens a lot in my country but no one would be so shameless as to actually do it in the middle of a paved street or sidewalk.
        mlyle 5y ago
        > open storm drains A lot of time this would put you in a street, or in a private parking lot where ownership would be trying to chase you off. > public toilets Relatively few. > wooded parks Just a few. Not close to everywhere homeless congregate.
        civilized 5y ago
        > A lot of time this would put you in a street, or in a private parking lot where ownership would be trying to chase you off. When it's happening in the middle of the sidewalk, I fear that being inconspicuous is not a primary consideration for those doing it.

nathanaldensr 5y ago

I think you answered your own question at the end of your second paragraph.

mlyle 5y ago

It can be hard enough to find a toilet as someone monied in a big city with a homeless problem. I imagine the homeless have a harder time. It's not surprising that some poop will inevitably end up in the street as a result.