10 ms·

Gen-z identifies as 20% queer. Each new generation is more willing/able to live their truth. Wouldn't surprise me if we land somewhere around 25-30%. In large

Gen-z identifies as 20% queer. Each new generation is more willing/able to live their truth. Wouldn't surprise me if we land somewhere around 25-30%. In large part thanks to representation in shows and movies. The us is rapidly diversifying too in terms of race, yet still even more under represented in media. Glaad says only ~10% queer characters on broadcast, and was a decline from previous study. Specifically comparing streaming netflix had 155 queer characters and HBO max 71. You do the math on the massive amount of original content on netflix compared to hbomax. The world doesn't look like HN's demo. [1] https://www.glaad.org/sites/default/files/GLAAD%20202122%20WWATV.pdf https://www.glaad.org/sites/default/files/GLAAD%20202122%20W... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/arts/television/tv-lgbtq-glaad.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/arts/television/tv-lgbtq-...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
user3939382 4y ago
Gen Z isn’t the world. US lgbt pop is 7% according to Wikipedia and that sounds high to me, maybe college kids experimenting with their identity in response to woke culture. I’d guess it’s more like 3-4%
- Spivak 4y ago
  Oh come on, are you really going to look up data about populations expecting it to be low, and then because it doesn’t conform to your world view make up some reason why it must be wrong? And the point about Gen Z is that this is where we’re heading. Millennials are 10% lgbt and growing, Gen Z is around lgbt 20% and growing. My all time favorite concert was Girl in Red who sold out a 5000 person venue in less than 30 minutes packed with young queer women in a red state. This is way way bigger than casual experimenting in college.
  - dillondoyle 4y ago
    Good concert!?
    - Spivak 4y ago
      Look, I like music and just used it as an example of something that simply couldn’t happen two generations ago. The idea that artists like her can sell out shows in every city to a fanbase of queer women used to be unheard of. If you want a less niche example my hometown’s pride used to be less than 1000 people in the 80’s and now is half a million.
      - dillondoyle 4y ago
        I'm with you. I was genuinely asking.
        Spivak 4y ago
        In that case, hell yeah! She’s really funny and down to earth live. The whole crowd going nuts screaming “they’re so pretty it hurts” gave me so much life. Sorry this thread is swinging so hard between folks who clearly have an axe to grind with the lgbt community and people who are shocked it’s still this bad in 2022 that I’m just defensive by default.
        dillondoyle 4y ago
        Nice! Yeah I just went to read comments (of course more crazy replies) after posting in the ACLU thread. I was shocked again at the crap people on this forum are writing in that thread too. Maybe you're right I shouldn't be shocked anymore. I've always known, but ben lucky enough not to have to experience very much, of the hate. But it just feels so much worse. Not just on queer ness but on anything not white-male christian. Or at least it's more vocal. Like why do these people feel the need to write this stream of crap on hacker news.... I can't decide which or both of these: - Emboldened by leaders & media to allow them to speak out already held beliefs (the silent majority except that's a euphemism). - This craziness has actually shifted, been created, and or amplified. Not just on LGBTQ issues. look at the ACLU thread (re lots of white males talking about overt discrimination because of diversity inclusion training and even more crazy q stuff like fbi false flagged jan 6 wth). I think it's both. On this topic for instance I very much doubt people knew let alone cared about trans girls playing on their high school sports team before we made progress to the point there were out trans high school girls and then it became a political punching bag. And now as a result some states and politicians are emboldened to pass dangerous laws that will cost even more lives.
  - Geonode 4y ago
    All social justice movements have a trend phase, unfortunately this one is leading to life altering surgeries and suicides.
    - Spivak 4y ago
      This shit is exhausting, no it isn't. It feels like it is because it's being talked about more. 1. You cannot just decide you want GRS. Not only is the process itself expensive and long, even starting the process requires two separate psych evals and a doctor sign off and you have be fully socially transitioned for at least a year. 2. The people who make it through the process commit suicide less. > Those who wanted, and subsequently received, hormone therapy and/or surgical care had a substantially lower prevalence of past-year suicide thoughts and attempts than those who wanted hormone therapy and surgical care and did not receive them. > Those who had “de-transitioned” at some point, meaning having gone back to living according to their sex assigned at birth, were significantly more likely to report suicide thoughts and attempts, both past-year and lifetime, than those who had never “de-transitioned.” Nearly 12 percent of those who “de-transitioned” attempted suicide in the past year compared to 6.7 percent of those who have not “de-transitioned.” https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/suicidality-transgender-adults/ https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/suicidal...
      - jibberst 4y ago
        [dead]
    - dillondoyle 4y ago
      This is so backwards, wrong, dangerous. And crazy that it is a comment on this forum.
      - solarhoma 4y ago
        >This is so backwards, wrong, dangerous. We have differing standards of backwards, wrong , and dangerous. Are either of us right? I think we are right in our own heads because we are individually seeing different perspectives. But the important part is to not silence one’s ability to discuss such ideas.
- dillondoyle 4y ago
  Being gay or trans or non binary or whatever is not contagious. There is no reason for differing %, except the trend is very clear: The older the generation the fewer % are out. It's because people are more supported and more able to come out. More people aren't gay. More people are able to live their truth publicly. * and based on your comment I will leap that you aren't a part of this community. The ugly truth is it is still very hard to come out for way too many. And dangerous. Look at the attacks on trans kids and talking about gender in schools.
  - fhklp 4y ago
    - hikingsimulator 4y ago
      ROGD is a invention by an adjunct who asked parents on transphobic websites. It was never intended to represent the reality of transgender people. Please don't spread lies and misinformation -- you just have to perform a cursory glance online to find that out. > Lisa Littman, as an adjunct assistant professor at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, created the term based on an online survey of parents on three anti-transgender websites who believed that their teenage children had suddenly manifested symptoms of gender dysphoria and begun identifying as transgender simultaneously with other children in their peer group. [1] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid-onset_gender_dysphoria_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid-onset_gender_dysphoria...
      - fhklp 4y ago
        Have a read of this, it's a first-hand account of a detransitioner who says that Littman's description of ROGD fit her to a tee: https://lacroicsz.substack.com/p/by-any-other-name https://lacroicsz.substack.com/p/by-any-other-name She was captured by the ideology as a teenager and took testosterone for a year and a half before realising what had happened to her. And there are many others just like her. I urge you to be more open-minded about this issue, and not baselessly accuse others of lies and misinformation, just for disagreeing with your opinion and having concerns about how children are being so negatively affected by this trend.
solarhoma 4y ago
Is it truth or is it being force fed down children’s throats? How can the Western world go from a ~2% homosexuality rate to 20% in two generations? It appears we both have a different perspective on how we got here.
- scotu 4y ago
  By having homosexuality violently oppressed, ostracized and ridiculed in the past, and slowly reversing that attitude towards it? People were literally criminals for loving people of the same sex...
  - solarhoma 4y ago
    20-40 years turnaround in a civilization is anything but slow in my opinion.
    - philjohn 4y ago
      A lot can happen in 20-40 years, and has happened in 20-40 years throughout history. Industrial Revolution, being a prime example. We've also become far more interconnected in the last 20 years, which plays a large part - whereas before people may have kept quiet because they thought they were the odd one out they now know they aren't.
      - solarhoma 4y ago
        I do not agree that the industrial revolution is equivalent to changing sexuality within a society. I could agree that modern technology and the industrial revolution are very similar. But even with that it has taken 60+yrs for our society to have a computer in the majority of homes after the Manchester Baby was created (and I think this change happened extremely quickly). And, analog and electromechanical computers go back even further. So, again, I think even these things have been a very gradual change happening over many decades once the leading technology was invented. To further expand on my thoughts, to imply everyone was using ‘industrial revolution’ technology overnight would be heresy. I’m sure it took factories many decades to build and retrofit equipment including a technology run up to the revolution itself. With this said, you peaked my interest in this area and I have some researching to do this weekend.
solarhoma 4y ago
- Espressosaurus 4y ago
  Like most things in biology, sexual attraction is a spectrum. It's not binary. Given wider acknowledgement and acceptance of that I can see more folks coming out as bi.
  - evocatus 4y ago
- swivelmaster 4y ago
  This has been studied for decades. The number of people who have had some kind of sexual experience with the opposite sex is far higher than many expect. I recommend doing some more reading on this subject before coming to the (ridiculous) conclusion that people are claiming to be bisexual because they somehow enjoy feeling oppressed. https://kinseyinstitute.org/research/publications/historical-report-diversity-of-sexual-orientation.php https://kinseyinstitute.org/research/publications/historical...
  - emptysongglass 4y ago
    Actually, if you go to /r/teenagers many teens complain that LGBTQ+ has become a mark of status such that teens who proclaim loudest their bonafides as trans/bi/whatever are those who reap status. Teenagers have always pushed against the prevailing narrative, it's how we get new ideas into the world. It becomes problematic when viral vectors of trends are disseminated at the speed of thought globally. Humans aren't hardwired for this. See also the recent HN post that more teens are depressed than ever. It has nothing to do with actual geopolitics: remember that the Cold War was extremely bleak for Americans and go back just a little earlier and you have World War II and the Great Depression.
    - swivelmaster 4y ago
asdff 4y ago
I think people wouldn't have so many issues with this if it didn't feel so patronizing. Sometimes castings feel more like HR checking all the boxes than representing a demographic, and on top of that the marketing will still typically put the white character's head front and center with the token characters on the sides. Los Angeles County where most stuff is filmed and produced is majority latino now. Let's see some movies where the cast is entirely that demographic vs. just one character in the swiss army knife of a cast demography for a change.
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  I think people object to the bad faith with which these actions are done: - sharply criticizing the US on race, but hiding black characters in Chinese movie posters (eg, Star Wars) - sharply criticizing the US on sexuality, but removing gay scenes from Chinese and ME versions (eg, Harry Potter) To me, it’s like men who beat their wife because they’re angry someone at the bar was rude — but are too cowardly to confront him, so they take out that aggression at home. Similarly, movie companies aren’t standing up to real bigotry in China or the ME — they’re coming home to abuse us domestically, over things we don’t even do. I think that abuser mentality is abundant among the “Wokerati”.
evocatus 4y ago
Why are you focusing on LGBTQ+ which, as some other posters have noted, appear over-represented in media (relative to their occurrence in the population), and not transracial people who receive effectively zero representation in media? Do you think it's acceptable to punch down like this?
mccarvo 4y ago
As well as still being used as an offensive slur against gay people and thus not really an appropriate term to use in these sorts of discussions, 'queer' is so ill-defined that it could include pretty much anyone if they feel like it, regardless of actual sexual orientation. For example, 'demisexual' people are included in this categorization, even though all it means is that a person prefers to form an emotional bond with their partner before engaging in sexual activity. Not only is there nothing particularly unusual about that, this includes people who are heterosexual. Who are not a marginalized sexuality by any means.
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  > Who are not a marginalized sexuality by any means. Heterosexual couples are underrepresented on TV due to institutional bias against them. That’s the definition of “marginalized”.
  - mccarvo 4y ago
    Are they really though? People are generally considered heterosexual by default if not stated otherwise, and most TV shows don't reveal this aspect for most of their characters or performers.
- dillondoyle 4y ago
  Hi. I'm queer. I can use the term however I want. It is an umbrella term of inclusion and any bias you have that it is somehow an insult is on you.
oxfordmale 4y ago
Gen X might be large Netflix consumers, however, they are not yet a large percentage of Netflix subscription payers. One problem for Netflix seems to be that their algorithms are favouring Gen-z content, however, Gen-z are not yet having much influence if the subscription gets cancelled or not

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

user3939382 4y ago

Gen Z isn’t the world. US lgbt pop is 7% according to Wikipedia and that sounds high to me, maybe college kids experimenting with their identity in response to woke culture. I’d guess it’s more like 3-4%

Spivak 4y ago
Oh come on, are you really going to look up data about populations expecting it to be low, and then because it doesn’t conform to your world view make up some reason why it must be wrong? And the point about Gen Z is that this is where we’re heading. Millennials are 10% lgbt and growing, Gen Z is around lgbt 20% and growing. My all time favorite concert was Girl in Red who sold out a 5000 person venue in less than 30 minutes packed with young queer women in a red state. This is way way bigger than casual experimenting in college.
- dillondoyle 4y ago
  Good concert!?
  - Spivak 4y ago
    Look, I like music and just used it as an example of something that simply couldn’t happen two generations ago. The idea that artists like her can sell out shows in every city to a fanbase of queer women used to be unheard of. If you want a less niche example my hometown’s pride used to be less than 1000 people in the 80’s and now is half a million.
    - dillondoyle 4y ago
      I'm with you. I was genuinely asking.
      - Spivak 4y ago
        In that case, hell yeah! She’s really funny and down to earth live. The whole crowd going nuts screaming “they’re so pretty it hurts” gave me so much life. Sorry this thread is swinging so hard between folks who clearly have an axe to grind with the lgbt community and people who are shocked it’s still this bad in 2022 that I’m just defensive by default.
        dillondoyle 4y ago
        Nice! Yeah I just went to read comments (of course more crazy replies) after posting in the ACLU thread. I was shocked again at the crap people on this forum are writing in that thread too. Maybe you're right I shouldn't be shocked anymore. I've always known, but ben lucky enough not to have to experience very much, of the hate. But it just feels so much worse. Not just on queer ness but on anything not white-male christian. Or at least it's more vocal. Like why do these people feel the need to write this stream of crap on hacker news.... I can't decide which or both of these: - Emboldened by leaders & media to allow them to speak out already held beliefs (the silent majority except that's a euphemism). - This craziness has actually shifted, been created, and or amplified. Not just on LGBTQ issues. look at the ACLU thread (re lots of white males talking about overt discrimination because of diversity inclusion training and even more crazy q stuff like fbi false flagged jan 6 wth). I think it's both. On this topic for instance I very much doubt people knew let alone cared about trans girls playing on their high school sports team before we made progress to the point there were out trans high school girls and then it became a political punching bag. And now as a result some states and politicians are emboldened to pass dangerous laws that will cost even more lives.
- Geonode 4y ago
  All social justice movements have a trend phase, unfortunately this one is leading to life altering surgeries and suicides.
  - Spivak 4y ago
    This shit is exhausting, no it isn't. It feels like it is because it's being talked about more. 1. You cannot just decide you want GRS. Not only is the process itself expensive and long, even starting the process requires two separate psych evals and a doctor sign off and you have be fully socially transitioned for at least a year. 2. The people who make it through the process commit suicide less. > Those who wanted, and subsequently received, hormone therapy and/or surgical care had a substantially lower prevalence of past-year suicide thoughts and attempts than those who wanted hormone therapy and surgical care and did not receive them. > Those who had “de-transitioned” at some point, meaning having gone back to living according to their sex assigned at birth, were significantly more likely to report suicide thoughts and attempts, both past-year and lifetime, than those who had never “de-transitioned.” Nearly 12 percent of those who “de-transitioned” attempted suicide in the past year compared to 6.7 percent of those who have not “de-transitioned.” https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/suicidality-transgender-adults/ https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/suicidal...
    - jibberst 4y ago
      [dead]
  - dillondoyle 4y ago
    This is so backwards, wrong, dangerous. And crazy that it is a comment on this forum.
    - solarhoma 4y ago
      >This is so backwards, wrong, dangerous. We have differing standards of backwards, wrong , and dangerous. Are either of us right? I think we are right in our own heads because we are individually seeing different perspectives. But the important part is to not silence one’s ability to discuss such ideas.
dillondoyle 4y ago
Being gay or trans or non binary or whatever is not contagious. There is no reason for differing %, except the trend is very clear: The older the generation the fewer % are out. It's because people are more supported and more able to come out. More people aren't gay. More people are able to live their truth publicly. * and based on your comment I will leap that you aren't a part of this community. The ugly truth is it is still very hard to come out for way too many. And dangerous. Look at the attacks on trans kids and talking about gender in schools.
- fhklp 4y ago
  - hikingsimulator 4y ago
    ROGD is a invention by an adjunct who asked parents on transphobic websites. It was never intended to represent the reality of transgender people. Please don't spread lies and misinformation -- you just have to perform a cursory glance online to find that out. > Lisa Littman, as an adjunct assistant professor at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, created the term based on an online survey of parents on three anti-transgender websites who believed that their teenage children had suddenly manifested symptoms of gender dysphoria and begun identifying as transgender simultaneously with other children in their peer group. [1] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid-onset_gender_dysphoria_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid-onset_gender_dysphoria...
    - fhklp 4y ago
      Have a read of this, it's a first-hand account of a detransitioner who says that Littman's description of ROGD fit her to a tee: https://lacroicsz.substack.com/p/by-any-other-name https://lacroicsz.substack.com/p/by-any-other-name She was captured by the ideology as a teenager and took testosterone for a year and a half before realising what had happened to her. And there are many others just like her. I urge you to be more open-minded about this issue, and not baselessly accuse others of lies and misinformation, just for disagreeing with your opinion and having concerns about how children are being so negatively affected by this trend.

solarhoma 4y ago

Is it truth or is it being force fed down children’s throats? How can the Western world go from a ~2% homosexuality rate to 20% in two generations? It appears we both have a different perspective on how we got here.

scotu 4y ago
By having homosexuality violently oppressed, ostracized and ridiculed in the past, and slowly reversing that attitude towards it? People were literally criminals for loving people of the same sex...
- solarhoma 4y ago
  20-40 years turnaround in a civilization is anything but slow in my opinion.
  - philjohn 4y ago
    A lot can happen in 20-40 years, and has happened in 20-40 years throughout history. Industrial Revolution, being a prime example. We've also become far more interconnected in the last 20 years, which plays a large part - whereas before people may have kept quiet because they thought they were the odd one out they now know they aren't.
    - solarhoma 4y ago
      I do not agree that the industrial revolution is equivalent to changing sexuality within a society. I could agree that modern technology and the industrial revolution are very similar. But even with that it has taken 60+yrs for our society to have a computer in the majority of homes after the Manchester Baby was created (and I think this change happened extremely quickly). And, analog and electromechanical computers go back even further. So, again, I think even these things have been a very gradual change happening over many decades once the leading technology was invented. To further expand on my thoughts, to imply everyone was using ‘industrial revolution’ technology overnight would be heresy. I’m sure it took factories many decades to build and retrofit equipment including a technology run up to the revolution itself. With this said, you peaked my interest in this area and I have some researching to do this weekend.

solarhoma 4y ago

Espressosaurus 4y ago
Like most things in biology, sexual attraction is a spectrum. It's not binary. Given wider acknowledgement and acceptance of that I can see more folks coming out as bi.
- evocatus 4y ago
swivelmaster 4y ago
This has been studied for decades. The number of people who have had some kind of sexual experience with the opposite sex is far higher than many expect. I recommend doing some more reading on this subject before coming to the (ridiculous) conclusion that people are claiming to be bisexual because they somehow enjoy feeling oppressed. https://kinseyinstitute.org/research/publications/historical-report-diversity-of-sexual-orientation.php https://kinseyinstitute.org/research/publications/historical...
- emptysongglass 4y ago
  Actually, if you go to /r/teenagers many teens complain that LGBTQ+ has become a mark of status such that teens who proclaim loudest their bonafides as trans/bi/whatever are those who reap status. Teenagers have always pushed against the prevailing narrative, it's how we get new ideas into the world. It becomes problematic when viral vectors of trends are disseminated at the speed of thought globally. Humans aren't hardwired for this. See also the recent HN post that more teens are depressed than ever. It has nothing to do with actual geopolitics: remember that the Cold War was extremely bleak for Americans and go back just a little earlier and you have World War II and the Great Depression.
  - swivelmaster 4y ago

asdff 4y ago

I think people wouldn't have so many issues with this if it didn't feel so patronizing. Sometimes castings feel more like HR checking all the boxes than representing a demographic, and on top of that the marketing will still typically put the white character's head front and center with the token characters on the sides. Los Angeles County where most stuff is filmed and produced is majority latino now. Let's see some movies where the cast is entirely that demographic vs. just one character in the swiss army knife of a cast demography for a change.

zmgsabst 4y ago
I think people object to the bad faith with which these actions are done: - sharply criticizing the US on race, but hiding black characters in Chinese movie posters (eg, Star Wars) - sharply criticizing the US on sexuality, but removing gay scenes from Chinese and ME versions (eg, Harry Potter) To me, it’s like men who beat their wife because they’re angry someone at the bar was rude — but are too cowardly to confront him, so they take out that aggression at home. Similarly, movie companies aren’t standing up to real bigotry in China or the ME — they’re coming home to abuse us domestically, over things we don’t even do. I think that abuser mentality is abundant among the “Wokerati”.

evocatus 4y ago

Why are you focusing on LGBTQ+ which, as some other posters have noted, appear over-represented in media (relative to their occurrence in the population), and not transracial people who receive effectively zero representation in media? Do you think it's acceptable to punch down like this?

mccarvo 4y ago

As well as still being used as an offensive slur against gay people and thus not really an appropriate term to use in these sorts of discussions, 'queer' is so ill-defined that it could include pretty much anyone if they feel like it, regardless of actual sexual orientation. For example, 'demisexual' people are included in this categorization, even though all it means is that a person prefers to form an emotional bond with their partner before engaging in sexual activity. Not only is there nothing particularly unusual about that, this includes people who are heterosexual. Who are not a marginalized sexuality by any means.

zmgsabst 4y ago
> Who are not a marginalized sexuality by any means. Heterosexual couples are underrepresented on TV due to institutional bias against them. That’s the definition of “marginalized”.
- mccarvo 4y ago
  Are they really though? People are generally considered heterosexual by default if not stated otherwise, and most TV shows don't reveal this aspect for most of their characters or performers.
dillondoyle 4y ago
Hi. I'm queer. I can use the term however I want. It is an umbrella term of inclusion and any bias you have that it is somehow an insult is on you.

oxfordmale 4y ago

Gen X might be large Netflix consumers, however, they are not yet a large percentage of Netflix subscription payers. One problem for Netflix seems to be that their algorithms are favouring Gen-z content, however, Gen-z are not yet having much influence if the subscription gets cancelled or not