5 ms·

> As of mid-March, federal scientists had identified 60 cases of the side effect, including nine that were fatal. That amounts to 3.23 blood clot cases per 1 mi

by ttfkam 4y ago

> As of mid-March, federal scientists had identified 60 cases of the side effect, including nine that were fatal. That amounts to 3.23 blood clot cases per 1 million J&J shots. The problem is more common in women under 50, where the death rate was roughly 1 per million shots, according to Marks. Now let's compare to hydroxychloroquine and other "alternatives". Let's also compare to the 99% survival rate of Covid folks keep harping on about. 99% survival rate is nowhere near better than 1 per million. And that's assuming you are a woman under 50. And that's assuming you took the J&J vaccine instead of the mRNA variants. 60 is too many, but with 1M dead in the US alone (mostly unvaccinated), perspective is important.

version_five 4y ago
I agree with your point that rare side effects is not a reason not to encourage vaccination. Basically all medications (whether causally or statistically) end up with potential side effects, and it's not a reason to reject modern medicine, it's always a probabilistic exercise. I also think public health messaging should focus on the net benefit and not get caught up in rare side effects. Where I think we disagree, and what I believe is the problem is that once we get into compelled vaccination (which whatever mental gymnastics people play, we have in most places), you take away people's autonomy to accept a treatment for themselves, and so suddenly even the rarest side effects become the government's fault and a big deal in the eyes of many. Most will voluntarily undertake much riskier things, but force them to do it, and surprisingly people get upset that there are potential rare side effects. Couple that with the fact that the vaccine doesn't really do anything against current covid strains, ("prevents severe infection" doesn't really clear any bar) and it makes more sense that even very rare stuff ends up being intolerable
- TrispusAttucks 4y ago
  Agreed. The fundamental problem is a violation of liberty. Once liberty is violated the responsibility for outcome is removed from the person and placed on the authority.
proc0 4y ago
The numbers look very different for healthy young people yet the distinction has never been taken into account for any lockdown or vaccination policy in the U.S. Anytime these numbers are brought up, it's as if this disease is exactly the same for everyone, but the evidence clearly points otherwise. Imagine just as many children dying as 70+ year olds with co-morbidities, that would have been magnitudes much worse. The survivability rate is usually something to point out for younger healthy people, who are pushed to reduce their risks by thousands of a percentage at the risk of suffering complications from something that apparently (i.e. this post) we still don't know everything about.
masonic 4y ago
>1M dead in the US alone (mostly unvaccinated) Only because most deaths happened before the vaccine was openly available.
hulitu 4y ago
Those are deaths which are clearly linked to the vaccine. The rest is mistery. Not all side effects are reported and not all deaths are linked to the medication. Doctors are busy and patients die mostly at home.

by ttfkam 4y ago

version_five 4y ago

I agree with your point that rare side effects is not a reason not to encourage vaccination. Basically all medications (whether causally or statistically) end up with potential side effects, and it's not a reason to reject modern medicine, it's always a probabilistic exercise. I also think public health messaging should focus on the net benefit and not get caught up in rare side effects. Where I think we disagree, and what I believe is the problem is that once we get into compelled vaccination (which whatever mental gymnastics people play, we have in most places), you take away people's autonomy to accept a treatment for themselves, and so suddenly even the rarest side effects become the government's fault and a big deal in the eyes of many. Most will voluntarily undertake much riskier things, but force them to do it, and surprisingly people get upset that there are potential rare side effects. Couple that with the fact that the vaccine doesn't really do anything against current covid strains, ("prevents severe infection" doesn't really clear any bar) and it makes more sense that even very rare stuff ends up being intolerable

TrispusAttucks 4y ago
Agreed. The fundamental problem is a violation of liberty. Once liberty is violated the responsibility for outcome is removed from the person and placed on the authority.

proc0 4y ago

The numbers look very different for healthy young people yet the distinction has never been taken into account for any lockdown or vaccination policy in the U.S. Anytime these numbers are brought up, it's as if this disease is exactly the same for everyone, but the evidence clearly points otherwise. Imagine just as many children dying as 70+ year olds with co-morbidities, that would have been magnitudes much worse. The survivability rate is usually something to point out for younger healthy people, who are pushed to reduce their risks by thousands of a percentage at the risk of suffering complications from something that apparently (i.e. this post) we still don't know everything about.

masonic 4y ago

>1M dead in the US alone (mostly unvaccinated) Only because most deaths happened before the vaccine was openly available.

hulitu 4y ago

Those are deaths which are clearly linked to the vaccine. The rest is mistery. Not all side effects are reported and not all deaths are linked to the medication. Doctors are busy and patients die mostly at home.