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I'd recommend you checkout Amazon's transparency service: https://brandservices.amazon.com/transparency https://brandservices.amazon.com/transparency It lets

I'd recommend you checkout Amazon's transparency service: https://brandservices.amazon.com/transparency https://brandservices.amazon.com/transparency It lets manufacturers print a unique secret code on their products, and Amazon validates it when it enters and leaves their fulfillment centers. As a user, you can also validate it yourself using the Transparency app you can download from Google Play or the AppStore. That way you know you're not getting counterfeit. I think it's relatively new, so not a lot of manufacturers use it yet. And I don't think you can filter on transparency enabled products in the search yet either.

pkulak 5y ago
That sounds like a wonderful way to shift work to the customer. Holy smokes, does this mean that Amazon has totally given up on actually solving the problem? I'll order direct from the manufacturer long before I start cryptographically verifying all my deliveries.
- petra 5y ago
  " Amazon scans each individual Transparency-enabled code to ensure that only authentic products are shipped."
- didibus 5y ago
  It says they verify the codes when it enter and leaves their fulfillment centers as well, but if the seller was shipping direct to you, not using Amazon fulfillment, there's not much Amazon can do, so they let you check it yourself.
sytelus 5y ago
This is not scalable. You are literally asking thousands of manufacturers to alter their manufacturing process. A much better way is to establish trust certificate. For example, if I want to sell something at Amazon and want to have “Verified” mark, I should submit my identification documents plus documents that establishes my relationship with manufacturers (ex “authorized dealers”). This is already done by many in real world and the question is just to bring it online.
- nickff 5y ago
  This sounds good, but is not a robust and reliable methodology. There are many problems including: - Some authorized resellers mix in counterfeits with real goods. - Other authorized resellers are only authorized to distribute certain items, but get others through 'shady' channels. - Some resellers will sell returned or repaired items. - Most resellers don't actually have time-limited deals. - Agreements lapse, and figuring out who is permitted to distribute what is complicated. - None of these measures are actually verifiable by the concerned consumer.
- didibus 5y ago
  They do something similar, see: https://www.amazonsellers.attorney/blog/what-invoices-amazon-expects-from-amazon-sellers https://www.amazonsellers.attorney/blog/what-invoices-amazon... Basically verifying your supply chain.
thaumasiotes 5y ago
> I'd recommend you checkout Amazon's transparency service: > https://brandservices.amazon.com/transparency https://brandservices.amazon.com/transparency Huh! This is pretty interesting, and it directly addresses the problem of inventory commingling that we've heard so much about. The program doesn't seem to be in a very functional state yet, though, and I see a fundamental issue with it. Products sold on Amazon do not indicate whether they are protected by the transparency program. (I checked for this by searching for the word "transparency" on the Cards Against Humanity product page - Cards Against Humanity is listed on the transparency program page as one of the brands enrolled in the program.[1]) This makes the program nearly useless to the customer. It could still be useful to the manufacturer, though, by preventing customers from receiving counterfeit products. The fundamental problem is that the counterfeits-on-Amazon problem arose in the first place due to Amazon's method of not caring which individual item came from which vendor. Their system enabled them to not keep track of the provenance of an item. And this new system seems to require them to track genuine items. If they're going to do that, they can already do it entirely on their own end of things. However, it does look like Amazon sees the transparency program as something to be implemented by manufacturers and not by vendors. On that model, they'd continue commingling everything like usual, and a vendor sending in a counterfeit item wouldn't be able to sell the item at all, as opposed to, say, selling it at a suspiciously low price and having their suspicious item reliably go to the same person who bought at the suspicious price. Amazon already tracks the identity of the item, so validity stamping by the manufacturer would fit into their system fairly seamlessly. [1] This is itself entirely useless to the customer. No one will ever care if they get a "counterfeit" version of a card game, as long as the content of the cards is the same.
- didibus 5y ago
  I agree about not being able to know the details as a customer, still not sure why they don't allow that. > The fundamental problem is that the counterfeits-on-Amazon problem arose in the first place due to Amazon's method of not caring which individual item came from which vendor. Their system enabled them to not keep track of the provenance of an item. And this new system seems to require them to track genuine items. If they're going to do that, they can already do it entirely on their own end of things. I'm not so sure about that. If there was a time they couldn't track, that's long gone. Amazon can definitely trace back what product from who was eventually delivered even if it was commingled. They don't even store inventory together anymore, they'll have them store per-vendor. See: https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/G200141480 https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/G200141480 I think the issue is that vendors are the ones that sell counterfeit, maybe willingly or sometimes unwillingly, their own supplier might be giving them counterfeit without them knowing. Each vendor can opt-out of commingling, but then they have to print an Amazon barcode on their products to use FBA (fulfilled by Amazon). For certain products, Amazon forces that anyways, like perishables and registered brands, unless you're approved by the brand. To be approved by the brand, you need to provide invoices from the brand to Amazon amongst other things. If you don't want to put Amazon labels on each of your products, your options are to have Amazon track the existing manufacturer barcode, in which case commingling is also applied, but still Amazon can trace back your exact product based on the manufacturer barcode, they also won't physically mix your products with other products in the warehouse. The other option is for you to ship it yourself and not use FBA, then you do what you want, you probably don't even need to have a barcode at all. What Amazon then does is random product inspections and everytime someone returns an item with reason counterfeit or not as advertised, it gets inspected as well. And since they can trace it back to the exact vendor, they suspend that vendor if found selling counterfeit. Probably there's some level of like 3 strikes or appeals process, etc. But that leaves open vendors selling counterfeit that fools the inspection or the customers. Or new vendors until they get inspected or have some customer return made. Since vendors are hard to trust, manufacturers can protect their authenticity of their products by signing up to transparency. Anyways, that's what I gathered from reading their latest help and support, and from forums. I'm still with you, as a buyer, I'd love to be able to see which vendor is selling commingled or not, which product have transparency or not, and even be able to filter for that in the search. I'd also love a country of origin for both product and vendor personally.
zucked 5y ago
The consumer shouldn't have to parse whether or not their goods are genuine... that's squarely in the wheelhouse of the merchant. This is Amazon's problem to fix, don't you even for a second suggest foisting this onto the consumer.
adrr 5y ago
Or they could stop co-mingling inventory. If I buy from Amazon, I shouldn’t get a product from a marketplace merchant.
- didibus 5y ago
  I'm not too sure, but I don't believe they commingle their inventory with that of 3rd party merchants anymore.

pkulak 5y ago

That sounds like a wonderful way to shift work to the customer. Holy smokes, does this mean that Amazon has totally given up on actually solving the problem? I'll order direct from the manufacturer long before I start cryptographically verifying all my deliveries.

petra 5y ago
" Amazon scans each individual Transparency-enabled code to ensure that only authentic products are shipped."
didibus 5y ago
It says they verify the codes when it enter and leaves their fulfillment centers as well, but if the seller was shipping direct to you, not using Amazon fulfillment, there's not much Amazon can do, so they let you check it yourself.

sytelus 5y ago

This is not scalable. You are literally asking thousands of manufacturers to alter their manufacturing process. A much better way is to establish trust certificate. For example, if I want to sell something at Amazon and want to have “Verified” mark, I should submit my identification documents plus documents that establishes my relationship with manufacturers (ex “authorized dealers”). This is already done by many in real world and the question is just to bring it online.

nickff 5y ago
This sounds good, but is not a robust and reliable methodology. There are many problems including: - Some authorized resellers mix in counterfeits with real goods. - Other authorized resellers are only authorized to distribute certain items, but get others through 'shady' channels. - Some resellers will sell returned or repaired items. - Most resellers don't actually have time-limited deals. - Agreements lapse, and figuring out who is permitted to distribute what is complicated. - None of these measures are actually verifiable by the concerned consumer.
didibus 5y ago
They do something similar, see: https://www.amazonsellers.attorney/blog/what-invoices-amazon-expects-from-amazon-sellers https://www.amazonsellers.attorney/blog/what-invoices-amazon... Basically verifying your supply chain.

thaumasiotes 5y ago

> I'd recommend you checkout Amazon's transparency service: > https://brandservices.amazon.com/transparency https://brandservices.amazon.com/transparency Huh! This is pretty interesting, and it directly addresses the problem of inventory commingling that we've heard so much about. The program doesn't seem to be in a very functional state yet, though, and I see a fundamental issue with it. Products sold on Amazon do not indicate whether they are protected by the transparency program. (I checked for this by searching for the word "transparency" on the Cards Against Humanity product page - Cards Against Humanity is listed on the transparency program page as one of the brands enrolled in the program.[1]) This makes the program nearly useless to the customer. It could still be useful to the manufacturer, though, by preventing customers from receiving counterfeit products. The fundamental problem is that the counterfeits-on-Amazon problem arose in the first place due to Amazon's method of not caring which individual item came from which vendor. Their system enabled them to not keep track of the provenance of an item. And this new system seems to require them to track genuine items. If they're going to do that, they can already do it entirely on their own end of things. However, it does look like Amazon sees the transparency program as something to be implemented by manufacturers and not by vendors. On that model, they'd continue commingling everything like usual, and a vendor sending in a counterfeit item wouldn't be able to sell the item at all, as opposed to, say, selling it at a suspiciously low price and having their suspicious item reliably go to the same person who bought at the suspicious price. Amazon already tracks the identity of the item, so validity stamping by the manufacturer would fit into their system fairly seamlessly. [1] This is itself entirely useless to the customer. No one will ever care if they get a "counterfeit" version of a card game, as long as the content of the cards is the same.

didibus 5y ago
I agree about not being able to know the details as a customer, still not sure why they don't allow that. > The fundamental problem is that the counterfeits-on-Amazon problem arose in the first place due to Amazon's method of not caring which individual item came from which vendor. Their system enabled them to not keep track of the provenance of an item. And this new system seems to require them to track genuine items. If they're going to do that, they can already do it entirely on their own end of things. I'm not so sure about that. If there was a time they couldn't track, that's long gone. Amazon can definitely trace back what product from who was eventually delivered even if it was commingled. They don't even store inventory together anymore, they'll have them store per-vendor. See: https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/G200141480 https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/G200141480 I think the issue is that vendors are the ones that sell counterfeit, maybe willingly or sometimes unwillingly, their own supplier might be giving them counterfeit without them knowing. Each vendor can opt-out of commingling, but then they have to print an Amazon barcode on their products to use FBA (fulfilled by Amazon). For certain products, Amazon forces that anyways, like perishables and registered brands, unless you're approved by the brand. To be approved by the brand, you need to provide invoices from the brand to Amazon amongst other things. If you don't want to put Amazon labels on each of your products, your options are to have Amazon track the existing manufacturer barcode, in which case commingling is also applied, but still Amazon can trace back your exact product based on the manufacturer barcode, they also won't physically mix your products with other products in the warehouse. The other option is for you to ship it yourself and not use FBA, then you do what you want, you probably don't even need to have a barcode at all. What Amazon then does is random product inspections and everytime someone returns an item with reason counterfeit or not as advertised, it gets inspected as well. And since they can trace it back to the exact vendor, they suspend that vendor if found selling counterfeit. Probably there's some level of like 3 strikes or appeals process, etc. But that leaves open vendors selling counterfeit that fools the inspection or the customers. Or new vendors until they get inspected or have some customer return made. Since vendors are hard to trust, manufacturers can protect their authenticity of their products by signing up to transparency. Anyways, that's what I gathered from reading their latest help and support, and from forums. I'm still with you, as a buyer, I'd love to be able to see which vendor is selling commingled or not, which product have transparency or not, and even be able to filter for that in the search. I'd also love a country of origin for both product and vendor personally.

zucked 5y ago

The consumer shouldn't have to parse whether or not their goods are genuine... that's squarely in the wheelhouse of the merchant. This is Amazon's problem to fix, don't you even for a second suggest foisting this onto the consumer.

adrr 5y ago

Or they could stop co-mingling inventory. If I buy from Amazon, I shouldn’t get a product from a marketplace merchant.

didibus 5y ago
I'm not too sure, but I don't believe they commingle their inventory with that of 3rd party merchants anymore.