5 ms·

Autism or at least high functioning autism is characterised by poor theory of mind. ie. you have defective/poor/inaccurate models for understanding how emotion

Autism or at least high functioning autism is characterised by poor theory of mind. ie. you have defective/poor/inaccurate models for understanding how emotions effect thoughts/behaviour and the other way around. More or less the same thing as poor emotional intelligence. If someone would tell me that they have a little bit of autism I would interpret that as them having poor emotional intelligence.

q-big 4y ago
> Autism or at least high functioning autism is characterised by poor theory of mind. Neurotypical people have (with few exceptions) a similarly poor theory of mind of what goes on inside autistic/Asperger people. But because the latter are a minority, it is those who get stigmatized.
- callesgg 4y ago
  It is true that many people who are not diagnosed with autism have quite terible theory of mind to. But it seams like you are missing a part of what poor theory of mind means here. It means that you don’t understand yourself and your own minds tendencies just as much as you don’t understand other peoples perspectives.
  - puffoflogic 4y ago
    Imagine thinking that you know gp commenter's internal mental faculties better than gp. Remind me again which one of you is supposed to have the faulty theory of mind?!
    - callesgg 4y ago
      I read a ridiculous text, and I then I tried to figure out what made the author write that ridiculous text. After which I responded with the hypotesis that was the result of my pondering. The pondering is not intended as a truth about the authors mental state, it is simply my intuition of an idea that a mind that would write such a statement might be blind to. But who knows... here I am on the internet trying out my ideas.
      - netizen-936824 4y ago
        The only reason you think its ridiculous is because your perspective is limited and you can't understand the perspective that generated the comment
        callesgg 4y ago
        I understand why a person would think like that… It makes sense that someone would come to that conclusion given certain beliefs about the world. I call it ridiculous cause I think it is narrow minded and not optimal to think of things like that.
- puffoflogic 4y ago
  Indeed, it seems to me that the inability of NTs to understand ASD minds is far more impactful in social interactions than vice versa. NTs have several advantages (some contingent on NTs being the majority) which should allow them to better leverage a functioning theory of mind to improve social interactions, but in general they fail to do so when interacting with ASD people. One such advantage is that NTs should just be more practiced at benefiting from their theory of mind, since they have more opportunities to do so. Emotional regulation is another; it's an often reported ASD trait that emotions originating from empathy can be quickly overwhelming, whereas the NT doesn't have this problem.
banannaise 4y ago
This is grossly inaccurate. Sure, it's possible that someone can just be socially stunted in a way that looks "autistic" to non-autistic people. But that's not at all what autism is. I'm autistic. I have a great understanding of my own emotional state and how it affects my mental function, and I often use this understanding to get myself out of situations before they deteriorate into me having a breakdown. Meanwhile you have allistic people everywhere who will neglect to eat and gradually start getting angry at everything with no awareness of what's going on. Who's the one lacking emotional intelligence? I'm also perfectly fine at understanding most social norms; I just find a lot of them ridiculous, irritating, and counterproductive, so I'm inclined to fight against them, which goes variously well or poorly depending on the audience. (It tends to go very well around other autistic people!)
- callesgg 4y ago
  Most social norms make perfect sense. They have evolved from reasons that make sense in the context where they are performed.
  - banannaise 4y ago
    Social norms are emergent, but not all emergent behavior is good. If they were correct, you wouldn't expect them to vary so heavily between cultures. (The variance is particularly noticeable when you start looking at cultures that were not heavily conquered and/or colonized.)
    - callesgg 4y ago
      "Correct" and "good" depends on the context where you evaluate. example: Shaking peoples hands is a strange social norm and a risk for spreading infections. But it is a useful interaction that you can play out when you are interacting with someone.

q-big 4y ago

> Autism or at least high functioning autism is characterised by poor theory of mind. Neurotypical people have (with few exceptions) a similarly poor theory of mind of what goes on inside autistic/Asperger people. But because the latter are a minority, it is those who get stigmatized.

callesgg 4y ago
It is true that many people who are not diagnosed with autism have quite terible theory of mind to. But it seams like you are missing a part of what poor theory of mind means here. It means that you don’t understand yourself and your own minds tendencies just as much as you don’t understand other peoples perspectives.
- puffoflogic 4y ago
  Imagine thinking that you know gp commenter's internal mental faculties better than gp. Remind me again which one of you is supposed to have the faulty theory of mind?!
  - callesgg 4y ago
    I read a ridiculous text, and I then I tried to figure out what made the author write that ridiculous text. After which I responded with the hypotesis that was the result of my pondering. The pondering is not intended as a truth about the authors mental state, it is simply my intuition of an idea that a mind that would write such a statement might be blind to. But who knows... here I am on the internet trying out my ideas.
    - netizen-936824 4y ago
      The only reason you think its ridiculous is because your perspective is limited and you can't understand the perspective that generated the comment
      - callesgg 4y ago
        I understand why a person would think like that… It makes sense that someone would come to that conclusion given certain beliefs about the world. I call it ridiculous cause I think it is narrow minded and not optimal to think of things like that.
puffoflogic 4y ago
Indeed, it seems to me that the inability of NTs to understand ASD minds is far more impactful in social interactions than vice versa. NTs have several advantages (some contingent on NTs being the majority) which should allow them to better leverage a functioning theory of mind to improve social interactions, but in general they fail to do so when interacting with ASD people. One such advantage is that NTs should just be more practiced at benefiting from their theory of mind, since they have more opportunities to do so. Emotional regulation is another; it's an often reported ASD trait that emotions originating from empathy can be quickly overwhelming, whereas the NT doesn't have this problem.

banannaise 4y ago

This is grossly inaccurate. Sure, it's possible that someone can just be socially stunted in a way that looks "autistic" to non-autistic people. But that's not at all what autism is. I'm autistic. I have a great understanding of my own emotional state and how it affects my mental function, and I often use this understanding to get myself out of situations before they deteriorate into me having a breakdown. Meanwhile you have allistic people everywhere who will neglect to eat and gradually start getting angry at everything with no awareness of what's going on. Who's the one lacking emotional intelligence? I'm also perfectly fine at understanding most social norms; I just find a lot of them ridiculous, irritating, and counterproductive, so I'm inclined to fight against them, which goes variously well or poorly depending on the audience. (It tends to go very well around other autistic people!)

callesgg 4y ago
Most social norms make perfect sense. They have evolved from reasons that make sense in the context where they are performed.
- banannaise 4y ago
  Social norms are emergent, but not all emergent behavior is good. If they were correct, you wouldn't expect them to vary so heavily between cultures. (The variance is particularly noticeable when you start looking at cultures that were not heavily conquered and/or colonized.)
  - callesgg 4y ago
    "Correct" and "good" depends on the context where you evaluate. example: Shaking peoples hands is a strange social norm and a risk for spreading infections. But it is a useful interaction that you can play out when you are interacting with someone.