4 ms·

Apple are doing this to a lot of people. Surely this is anti-competitive?

by dunk010 18y ago

colinplamondon 18y ago
Seriously? iPhone has 1% of the market, they've got another 79% to go before we're even in the ballpark of antitrust.
- silencio 18y ago
  1% of what market? Last I checked the iPhone had a wee bit more than 1% of the smartphone market.
  - Flemlord 18y ago
    Hilarious. You're assuming the DOJ is actually trying to prevent monopolies; it seems to me their main motivation is responding to pressure from Congress and corporate lobbyists. If Apple were called into their offices to defend their market share, they would say something like "we have .001 percent of the mobile devices market. This market includes anything with a wireless connection, like laptops and all cellular phones." The DOJ would say "Ok, sounds good to us. No monopoly issues here." (Unless, of course, some powerful Congressperson was pounding on them, trying to cause headaches for Apple..) As an example, the DOJ just let the only two satellite radio companies merge (Sirius and XM). They allowed them to define the market as "anything that can broadcast music". The market included all normal over-the-air radio stations, internet radio, and (for all I know) iTunes. By that definition, XM and Sirius only owned .01% of the "anything that can broadcast" market, so there were no antitrust issues. I got a personal look at this when I sold my last company; we were bought by a competitor and the DOJ called us in to evaluate the merger and determine whether there were any anti-trust issues. We defined the market in the broadest terms possible and got absolutely no resistance from them. (Granted, even had we defined the market in narrow terms we still should have been ok.) To this day I'm amazed at how tractable they were. The system is broken.
    - silencio 18y ago
      Actually, I think you meant to reply to my parent post. I don't disagree with you. I'm really seething mad over the Apple app store and iPhone bullshit (guess how many ignored/closed radars i have regarding iPhone and iPhone sdk right now?) and even moreso because a lot of my friends are worried about their future in iPhone development. But I'm really curious as to 1% of what my parent post was talking about. Not ANYTHING ELSE related to monopolies and damned statistics.
- notauser 18y ago
  They sell the iPhone in parts of the world with different legal systems, including Europe which has fairly tough competition laws. (WP quotes.) - If a firm has a dominant position, because it has beyond a 39.7% market share then there is "a special responsibility not to allow its conduct to impair competition on the common market" Apple has more than a 40% market share for iTunes and the iPod (estimated as high as 70%(1)). In it's class the iPod Touch is probably even higher than that. Since Podcaster would also have worked on the Touch then Apple is well within the realms of this particularly interesting requirement: - A refusal to supply a facility which is essential for all businesses attempting to compete to use can constitute an abuse. MS got hit with a $1.35bn fine for breaking the rules, and plenty of European companies have also been crucified. (1) http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/01/29/beyond-the-incredible-shrinking-ipod-market/ http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/01/29/beyond-the-i... estimates 70% units and 84% by $.
- zandorg 18y ago
  Agreed, while having good tech skills (and a degree), I still have my first phone, a Nokia 6310. It works pretty well as a phone and I let my Psion 3c do everything else. I note that the Psion 3c needs a battery change only every 8 months, noted because my phone's charge lasts about 3 days.

Apple are doing this to a lot of people. Surely this is anti-competitive?

by dunk010 18y ago

Apple are doing this to a lot of people. Surely this is anti-competitive?

colinplamondon 18y ago

Seriously? iPhone has 1% of the market, they've got another 79% to go before we're even in the ballpark of antitrust.

silencio 18y ago
1% of what market? Last I checked the iPhone had a wee bit more than 1% of the smartphone market.
- Flemlord 18y ago
  Hilarious. You're assuming the DOJ is actually trying to prevent monopolies; it seems to me their main motivation is responding to pressure from Congress and corporate lobbyists. If Apple were called into their offices to defend their market share, they would say something like "we have .001 percent of the mobile devices market. This market includes anything with a wireless connection, like laptops and all cellular phones." The DOJ would say "Ok, sounds good to us. No monopoly issues here." (Unless, of course, some powerful Congressperson was pounding on them, trying to cause headaches for Apple..) As an example, the DOJ just let the only two satellite radio companies merge (Sirius and XM). They allowed them to define the market as "anything that can broadcast music". The market included all normal over-the-air radio stations, internet radio, and (for all I know) iTunes. By that definition, XM and Sirius only owned .01% of the "anything that can broadcast" market, so there were no antitrust issues. I got a personal look at this when I sold my last company; we were bought by a competitor and the DOJ called us in to evaluate the merger and determine whether there were any anti-trust issues. We defined the market in the broadest terms possible and got absolutely no resistance from them. (Granted, even had we defined the market in narrow terms we still should have been ok.) To this day I'm amazed at how tractable they were. The system is broken.
  - silencio 18y ago
    Actually, I think you meant to reply to my parent post. I don't disagree with you. I'm really seething mad over the Apple app store and iPhone bullshit (guess how many ignored/closed radars i have regarding iPhone and iPhone sdk right now?) and even moreso because a lot of my friends are worried about their future in iPhone development. But I'm really curious as to 1% of what my parent post was talking about. Not ANYTHING ELSE related to monopolies and damned statistics.
notauser 18y ago
They sell the iPhone in parts of the world with different legal systems, including Europe which has fairly tough competition laws. (WP quotes.) - If a firm has a dominant position, because it has beyond a 39.7% market share then there is "a special responsibility not to allow its conduct to impair competition on the common market" Apple has more than a 40% market share for iTunes and the iPod (estimated as high as 70%(1)). In it's class the iPod Touch is probably even higher than that. Since Podcaster would also have worked on the Touch then Apple is well within the realms of this particularly interesting requirement: - A refusal to supply a facility which is essential for all businesses attempting to compete to use can constitute an abuse. MS got hit with a $1.35bn fine for breaking the rules, and plenty of European companies have also been crucified. (1) http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/01/29/beyond-the-incredible-shrinking-ipod-market/ http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/01/29/beyond-the-i... estimates 70% units and 84% by $.
zandorg 18y ago
Agreed, while having good tech skills (and a degree), I still have my first phone, a Nokia 6310. It works pretty well as a phone and I let my Psion 3c do everything else. I note that the Psion 3c needs a battery change only every 8 months, noted because my phone's charge lasts about 3 days.