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Cool but I'd much rather see someone sell a little server box where all I would need to do is plug it into my router and open up a port. IE: If we are going to

Cool but I'd much rather see someone sell a little server box where all I would need to do is plug it into my router and open up a port. IE: If we are going to decentralize with Mastodon-style software lets actually decentralize the hardware used to host the system.

singpolyma3 4y ago
I would love to do this, but it's a lot more work to maintain that kind of thing for most users. At least with Togethr we let you choose from many different data centres so the instances won't all be in the same place.
wmf 4y ago
Helm looks pretty cool although it's expensive and they only have two apps (email and OwnCloud): https://thehelm.com/products/helm-personal-server-v2 https://thehelm.com/products/helm-personal-server-v2
ay 4y ago
You would still need the domain setup, etc… or would you be happy to use your hardware and some free subdomain from elsewhere ?
- 0x0000000 4y ago
  I think it's something that a vanity subdomain would be fine for the base case, with an optional upsell for a custom domain. The self-hosted box would need to have some way to dynamically update DNS, as the average consumer doesn't have a static IP.
mxuribe 4y ago
You're not wrong. But, i feel that this type of (paid) offering is the next best thing. What we need is many, many more paid providers, which helps decentralize things a little at least (and of course helps those less techie than some)...until your proposed solution is more easily implementable by a greater swath of the interested population.
- harlanji 4y ago
  Exactly. The key is that it's a paid service. And it looks to be based on Pleroma and they will export data and transfer domains upon request. As long as it stays like that and that's the bar across providers everyone wins.
- js4ever 4y ago
  I believe it will come with time, we already have IPv6 and microservers like Pi, but then users have to secure, update,backup, monitor and upgrade the software and hardware regularly ... There is no solution yet for that. So it's definitely an easier solution to use a managed service. BTW here is another Mastodon provider: https://elest.io/open-source/mastodon https://elest.io/open-source/mastodon Disclaimer: I work there
neltnerb 4y ago
What are the odds the router itself can act as a Mastodon server with some external storage? I'm not sure how resource intensive Mastodon is in practice.
- singpolyma3 4y ago
  Mastodon is very RAM hungry. Not going to run on most routers.
  - eloisant 4y ago
    It probably depends on the load? It's a Rails app AFAIK so if the load is low (which is likely for a family or group of friends) it should be able to run anywhere.
    - vidarh 4y ago
      If you don't federate (and so only receive toots from accounts you've explicitly followed, or who mention you or their shares/boosts) and you don't follow a huge number of highly active accounts, then maybe.
      - singpolyma3 4y ago
        Getting toots or mentions from accounts not on your server is exactly what federation is for, so not sure what you mean here...
        vidarh 4y ago
        Mastodon has two separate federation mechanisms: 1. For anything where you are mentioned specifically, or where you're a follower, the toots gets distributed automatically. 2. For anything where the toot is marked public but you are not a follower or mentioned, your instance will only receive a toot if you've explicitly configured federation of the public feed with one or more instances that is reasonably well connected. The former is "cheap" unless you follow lots of people. The latter is like sucking on a firehose, because you get pretty much everything. If you do, it matter relatively little how large your userbase is, because you're still processing nearly every public toot.
rglullis 4y ago
What you want is achievable with https://dappnode.io https://dappnode.io
- antisthenes 4y ago
  Not really sure what they're selling besides an Intel NUC with a large SSD at a ridiculous markup? Where is it supposed to go anyway? Next to your router or into a data center?
  - rglullis 4y ago
    They are selling the overpriced hardware as a way to support the development of the OS, which can be summed up as: - docker-based app store - IPFS-based image registry - some utilities to set up your own VPN - a "portal" system for those applications you want to open to the public web - webUI to manage all that. And yes, it is meant for you to run at your home.
kornhole 4y ago
I have Mastodon, mail, XMPP, Coturn, and Nextcloud instances all running on a single Raspberry PI setup quite easily thanks to yunohost.org. They have ISO's for just about any hardware or a VPS. Hostman and Mastohost are among the other managed hosters of fediverse instances.
1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago
Curious: sell at what price. This is something I have thought about for many years. If we have small form factor computers that sell for, say, $5-$25 why not distribute pre-configured, free, open source servers on well-understood hardware^1 instead of having to test on various different hardware possibilities, not all of them well-understood, or making assumptions about what hardware people should have available. IMO, there is value in server configuration. A purchaser could choose to compile and install the software herself but having an example of a working configuration can be invaluable. For me, good examples are usually worth more than countless pages of verbose documentation. The question I have is the dollar amount of that value. The example I have thought about in the past, rightly or wrongly, is the WRT54G and what became OpenWRT. To me, focusing on one item of hardware initially has advantages. That is generally what vendors of off-the-shelf products do. Yet with open source software, there is usually an expectation that it must work on a variety of hardware, which is likely to make things more complicated. 1. I am not implying this has never been done or that it isn't still happening.
- tedunangst 4y ago
  If I sell you a computer for $5 and you email me questions about how to configure DNS, what kind of reply are you expecting?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - savingsPossible 4y ago
    "You can buy a support plan for $100/month. Renewal not automatic, only if you opt it"
  - 1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago
    Having a working DNS cofiguation is generally a prerequisite to sending email. There is of course email smtpd software that allows receiving email using only IP addresses. Email predates DNS. Two people running their own smptd's could exchange email directly using only IP addresses, without the need for DNS. But the way most people use email today, delegating total control over it to third parties, email is highly dependent on DNS.
clankyclanker 4y ago
Looks like the Freedombox.org folks are shipping that now, for €70: https://freedombox.org/buy/ https://freedombox.org/buy/
MR4D 4y ago
An app for the Synology drives would help.
2Gkashmiri 4y ago
You know what? Check out pleromapi, it does what it says. A raspberry pi image that auto installs pleroma and you are greeted with an image within the first boot. No configs other than domain and passwords. Try it out.
WhyNotHugo 4y ago
> all I would need to do is plug it into my router and open up a port. I like this vision of how things should work, but finding an ISP that _doesn't_ put a firewall for incoming connections nor use an ISP-grade NAT is challenging. In my [limited] experience, neither tech support nor sales have any idea what any of these terms mean, so they can't advise at all.

singpolyma3 4y ago

I would love to do this, but it's a lot more work to maintain that kind of thing for most users. At least with Togethr we let you choose from many different data centres so the instances won't all be in the same place.

wmf 4y ago

Helm looks pretty cool although it's expensive and they only have two apps (email and OwnCloud): https://thehelm.com/products/helm-personal-server-v2 https://thehelm.com/products/helm-personal-server-v2

ay 4y ago

You would still need the domain setup, etc… or would you be happy to use your hardware and some free subdomain from elsewhere ?

0x0000000 4y ago
I think it's something that a vanity subdomain would be fine for the base case, with an optional upsell for a custom domain. The self-hosted box would need to have some way to dynamically update DNS, as the average consumer doesn't have a static IP.

mxuribe 4y ago

You're not wrong. But, i feel that this type of (paid) offering is the next best thing. What we need is many, many more paid providers, which helps decentralize things a little at least (and of course helps those less techie than some)...until your proposed solution is more easily implementable by a greater swath of the interested population.

harlanji 4y ago
Exactly. The key is that it's a paid service. And it looks to be based on Pleroma and they will export data and transfer domains upon request. As long as it stays like that and that's the bar across providers everyone wins.
js4ever 4y ago
I believe it will come with time, we already have IPv6 and microservers like Pi, but then users have to secure, update,backup, monitor and upgrade the software and hardware regularly ... There is no solution yet for that. So it's definitely an easier solution to use a managed service. BTW here is another Mastodon provider: https://elest.io/open-source/mastodon https://elest.io/open-source/mastodon Disclaimer: I work there

neltnerb 4y ago

What are the odds the router itself can act as a Mastodon server with some external storage? I'm not sure how resource intensive Mastodon is in practice.

singpolyma3 4y ago
Mastodon is very RAM hungry. Not going to run on most routers.
- eloisant 4y ago
  It probably depends on the load? It's a Rails app AFAIK so if the load is low (which is likely for a family or group of friends) it should be able to run anywhere.
  - vidarh 4y ago
    If you don't federate (and so only receive toots from accounts you've explicitly followed, or who mention you or their shares/boosts) and you don't follow a huge number of highly active accounts, then maybe.
    - singpolyma3 4y ago
      Getting toots or mentions from accounts not on your server is exactly what federation is for, so not sure what you mean here...
      - vidarh 4y ago
        Mastodon has two separate federation mechanisms: 1. For anything where you are mentioned specifically, or where you're a follower, the toots gets distributed automatically. 2. For anything where the toot is marked public but you are not a follower or mentioned, your instance will only receive a toot if you've explicitly configured federation of the public feed with one or more instances that is reasonably well connected. The former is "cheap" unless you follow lots of people. The latter is like sucking on a firehose, because you get pretty much everything. If you do, it matter relatively little how large your userbase is, because you're still processing nearly every public toot.

rglullis 4y ago

What you want is achievable with https://dappnode.io https://dappnode.io

antisthenes 4y ago
Not really sure what they're selling besides an Intel NUC with a large SSD at a ridiculous markup? Where is it supposed to go anyway? Next to your router or into a data center?
- rglullis 4y ago
  They are selling the overpriced hardware as a way to support the development of the OS, which can be summed up as: - docker-based app store - IPFS-based image registry - some utilities to set up your own VPN - a "portal" system for those applications you want to open to the public web - webUI to manage all that. And yes, it is meant for you to run at your home.

kornhole 4y ago

I have Mastodon, mail, XMPP, Coturn, and Nextcloud instances all running on a single Raspberry PI setup quite easily thanks to yunohost.org. They have ISO's for just about any hardware or a VPS. Hostman and Mastohost are among the other managed hosters of fediverse instances.

1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago

Curious: sell at what price. This is something I have thought about for many years. If we have small form factor computers that sell for, say, $5-$25 why not distribute pre-configured, free, open source servers on well-understood hardware^1 instead of having to test on various different hardware possibilities, not all of them well-understood, or making assumptions about what hardware people should have available. IMO, there is value in server configuration. A purchaser could choose to compile and install the software herself but having an example of a working configuration can be invaluable. For me, good examples are usually worth more than countless pages of verbose documentation. The question I have is the dollar amount of that value. The example I have thought about in the past, rightly or wrongly, is the WRT54G and what became OpenWRT. To me, focusing on one item of hardware initially has advantages. That is generally what vendors of off-the-shelf products do. Yet with open source software, there is usually an expectation that it must work on a variety of hardware, which is likely to make things more complicated. 1. I am not implying this has never been done or that it isn't still happening.

tedunangst 4y ago
If I sell you a computer for $5 and you email me questions about how to configure DNS, what kind of reply are you expecting?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- savingsPossible 4y ago
  "You can buy a support plan for $100/month. Renewal not automatic, only if you opt it"
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago
  Having a working DNS cofiguation is generally a prerequisite to sending email. There is of course email smtpd software that allows receiving email using only IP addresses. Email predates DNS. Two people running their own smptd's could exchange email directly using only IP addresses, without the need for DNS. But the way most people use email today, delegating total control over it to third parties, email is highly dependent on DNS.

clankyclanker 4y ago

Looks like the Freedombox.org folks are shipping that now, for €70: https://freedombox.org/buy/ https://freedombox.org/buy/

MR4D 4y ago

An app for the Synology drives would help.

2Gkashmiri 4y ago

You know what? Check out pleromapi, it does what it says. A raspberry pi image that auto installs pleroma and you are greeted with an image within the first boot. No configs other than domain and passwords. Try it out.

WhyNotHugo 4y ago

> all I would need to do is plug it into my router and open up a port. I like this vision of how things should work, but finding an ISP that _doesn't_ put a firewall for incoming connections nor use an ISP-grade NAT is challenging. In my [limited] experience, neither tech support nor sales have any idea what any of these terms mean, so they can't advise at all.