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this ignores the harsh realities for life as a young person in the west. Sure, they are not scrounging for food nor is there widespread famine but politics is

this ignores the harsh realities for life as a young person in the west. Sure, they are not scrounging for food nor is there widespread famine but politics is increasingly polarised. There is a climate problem looming and the youngest will deal with it, western citizens or otherwise. Economies are tanking, job markets are topsy turvy not to mention the real estate problem in a lot of western countries. These problems, while not as dire as the problems faced by those in the developing world, are still problems. You cannot hand-wave this away by comparing one's lot in life to that of a person with no limbs. That is unfairly reductive. The challenge, as you point out, is how to deal with this information and that is where i feel modern society has failed.

s1artibartfast 4y ago
There is the matter of proportionality. There are challenges and problems, some worse than prior generations and some better. Putting the comparison aside. It is not healthy or helpful to teach children that they are doomed, the situation is hopeless, and their their future is destined to be miserable. I wouldn't tell my child "your life will suck, and you would be better off dead" every morning when they wake up. Pessimists preach this, and children believe it.
- juve1996 4y ago
  Children aren't being directly told these things. They are seeing it every day on blast from every source of media. It's not just kids. Its young adults choosing not to get married or have kids. The reality is grim. Progress is relative. Even if the young generation isn't that bad compared to the 1700s, it's bad compared to what it could directly be related to, which is the previous generation and the era of good and plenty and western hegemony.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    I'm not claiming that people tell their children this verbatim. I agree that this is what they are effectively being blasted by from media sources and this is very detrimental. I also think that the pessimism is vastly overstated. Constant comparison is a recipe for disappointment just as much as if you compared your life to a celebrity on social media. There are still vast sources for happiness and life satisfaction that are untappd
    - juve1996 4y ago
      On an individual level, yes, I agree. But this is against human nature - which is to compare. It requires strong mindfulness to overcome and this is not available to the general population. This isn't "they have a BMW and I have a Corolla." The basic things are further and further out of reach. Again, if you say to someone "well at least you aren't a slave" they'll scoff at you. We've progressed to a certain point and are on the verge of regressing if we haven't already.
      - s1artibartfast 4y ago
        >The basic things are further and further out of reach. I assume you are talking specifically about middle class American issues in the last couple decades. Even so, this is really really hard to separate reality from imagination, and avoid the biases of looking at the negatives and ignoring the positives. You really have to take a deep dive on specific topics. I often hear people talk about home ownership as a prime example. Home ownership is indeed lower today than it was 10-15 years ago, but people ignore the fact that tons of people that bought houses when it was easier were foreclosed on and lost them! Home ownership is higher across all ages than they were any time before the 70s and within a few percent of where they have been since. [1][2] At the same time, the country has urbanized, moving to cities where it is much harder to own a home[3]. People also have a major bias due to social mobility. For people who's parents owned a house and they don't, it seems like everything is falling out of reach. They don't have the perspective of the equal number of people who are in the opposite situation, where they are homeowners and their parents weren't. It is really really hard to make an apples to apples comparison of "quality of life" across generations. For example, you can look back just 10-20 years and see significant progress in civil rights, homicide rates, and social services. Medicaid didn't even exist before 65' and has undergone a number of large expansions since. It is easy to forget little things like 2+ million boomers were forcibly drafted to go fight in a foreign war. How do you weigh that against a completely different metric like the homeownership for people in their 20s. I make this not to say that things are easier or harder, but to say that the entire process of general comparison is impossible, because people experience only one life and the grass is always greener on the other side. I do think that when you look at the specific topics in detail, things are not nearly as bad as the pessimists proclaim. I think the single biggest factor working against the happiness of younger generations is a lack of community, in person social interactions, and relatedly mental health. This is where the numbers are very clearly showing a huge difference for younger people. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-one-thing-will-make-household-formation-jump-san-francisco-fed-researcher-says-2016-05-23 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-one-thing-will-make-h... https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RSAHORUSQ156S https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RSAHORUSQ156S https://www.multihousingnews.com/economy-watch-how-millennials-are-reshaping-u-s-cities-2/ https://www.multihousingnews.com/economy-watch-how-millennia...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
carlgreene 4y ago
Of course there are challenges and problems. There always will be. The important thing is to teach the youth and give them confidence that they can solve these problems instead "hand-wave" them away in a negative way as pessimists tend to do. There will always be trials and tribulations. The ones that solve those are the ones that truly believe they can. The more blind optimism we instill in folks the more confidence they will have to try and tackle the seemingly impossible (they never are) problems.
- defterGoose 4y ago
  Dude, you blogged about being super thrilled about your garage door opener. Don't let the rest of us drag you down, but also don't presume to have figured the exact mental attitude that leads to successful outcomes. Not everything is peachy keen.
  - carlgreene 4y ago
    Man that was a good day! No one is dragging me down, nor am I saying everything is peachy keen. I do however think it's important how we present ourselves, and our problems to the youth both IRL and on social media.
tsol 4y ago
To put it in perspective; children in the west use phones with lithium mined by children in poor countries, and wear make up with mica mined by children in poor countries. Not saying that makes their problems invalid, but gratitude has been scientifically proven to increase happiness and we do have some things to be grateful for. Unfortunately telling people to me grateful is for some reason seen as annoying to most. I'm no Christian but that was one big positive of Christianity-- the focus on gratitude and skills to help one ensure stress and unhappiness

s1artibartfast 4y ago

There is the matter of proportionality. There are challenges and problems, some worse than prior generations and some better. Putting the comparison aside. It is not healthy or helpful to teach children that they are doomed, the situation is hopeless, and their their future is destined to be miserable. I wouldn't tell my child "your life will suck, and you would be better off dead" every morning when they wake up. Pessimists preach this, and children believe it.

juve1996 4y ago
Children aren't being directly told these things. They are seeing it every day on blast from every source of media. It's not just kids. Its young adults choosing not to get married or have kids. The reality is grim. Progress is relative. Even if the young generation isn't that bad compared to the 1700s, it's bad compared to what it could directly be related to, which is the previous generation and the era of good and plenty and western hegemony.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  I'm not claiming that people tell their children this verbatim. I agree that this is what they are effectively being blasted by from media sources and this is very detrimental. I also think that the pessimism is vastly overstated. Constant comparison is a recipe for disappointment just as much as if you compared your life to a celebrity on social media. There are still vast sources for happiness and life satisfaction that are untappd
  - juve1996 4y ago
    On an individual level, yes, I agree. But this is against human nature - which is to compare. It requires strong mindfulness to overcome and this is not available to the general population. This isn't "they have a BMW and I have a Corolla." The basic things are further and further out of reach. Again, if you say to someone "well at least you aren't a slave" they'll scoff at you. We've progressed to a certain point and are on the verge of regressing if we haven't already.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      >The basic things are further and further out of reach. I assume you are talking specifically about middle class American issues in the last couple decades. Even so, this is really really hard to separate reality from imagination, and avoid the biases of looking at the negatives and ignoring the positives. You really have to take a deep dive on specific topics. I often hear people talk about home ownership as a prime example. Home ownership is indeed lower today than it was 10-15 years ago, but people ignore the fact that tons of people that bought houses when it was easier were foreclosed on and lost them! Home ownership is higher across all ages than they were any time before the 70s and within a few percent of where they have been since. [1][2] At the same time, the country has urbanized, moving to cities where it is much harder to own a home[3]. People also have a major bias due to social mobility. For people who's parents owned a house and they don't, it seems like everything is falling out of reach. They don't have the perspective of the equal number of people who are in the opposite situation, where they are homeowners and their parents weren't. It is really really hard to make an apples to apples comparison of "quality of life" across generations. For example, you can look back just 10-20 years and see significant progress in civil rights, homicide rates, and social services. Medicaid didn't even exist before 65' and has undergone a number of large expansions since. It is easy to forget little things like 2+ million boomers were forcibly drafted to go fight in a foreign war. How do you weigh that against a completely different metric like the homeownership for people in their 20s. I make this not to say that things are easier or harder, but to say that the entire process of general comparison is impossible, because people experience only one life and the grass is always greener on the other side. I do think that when you look at the specific topics in detail, things are not nearly as bad as the pessimists proclaim. I think the single biggest factor working against the happiness of younger generations is a lack of community, in person social interactions, and relatedly mental health. This is where the numbers are very clearly showing a huge difference for younger people. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-one-thing-will-make-household-formation-jump-san-francisco-fed-researcher-says-2016-05-23 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-one-thing-will-make-h... https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RSAHORUSQ156S https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RSAHORUSQ156S https://www.multihousingnews.com/economy-watch-how-millennials-are-reshaping-u-s-cities-2/ https://www.multihousingnews.com/economy-watch-how-millennia...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

carlgreene 4y ago

Of course there are challenges and problems. There always will be. The important thing is to teach the youth and give them confidence that they can solve these problems instead "hand-wave" them away in a negative way as pessimists tend to do. There will always be trials and tribulations. The ones that solve those are the ones that truly believe they can. The more blind optimism we instill in folks the more confidence they will have to try and tackle the seemingly impossible (they never are) problems.

defterGoose 4y ago
Dude, you blogged about being super thrilled about your garage door opener. Don't let the rest of us drag you down, but also don't presume to have figured the exact mental attitude that leads to successful outcomes. Not everything is peachy keen.
- carlgreene 4y ago
  Man that was a good day! No one is dragging me down, nor am I saying everything is peachy keen. I do however think it's important how we present ourselves, and our problems to the youth both IRL and on social media.

tsol 4y ago

To put it in perspective; children in the west use phones with lithium mined by children in poor countries, and wear make up with mica mined by children in poor countries. Not saying that makes their problems invalid, but gratitude has been scientifically proven to increase happiness and we do have some things to be grateful for. Unfortunately telling people to me grateful is for some reason seen as annoying to most. I'm no Christian but that was one big positive of Christianity-- the focus on gratitude and skills to help one ensure stress and unhappiness