4 ms·

That’s because we have a history of white supremacy in that country though. Similar to how in Germany you’ll get weird looks if you’re echoing nazi talking poin

That’s because we have a history of white supremacy in that country though. Similar to how in Germany you’ll get weird looks if you’re echoing nazi talking points; there’s an existing history and cultural context to that sort of thing in that country that the country now wants to not repeat.

usrn 4y ago
There are effectively no Nazis in Germany but there are still ethnostates and genocide in Africa. I really don't see how White people are special here. EDIT: As usual with the social justice crowd: no discussion just downvotes. It makes a lot of us feel like there legitimately is no argument for your position.
- quantum_solanum 4y ago
  > There are effectively no Nazis in Germany Gee, I wonder why people are downvoting an obvious fascist stooge. [1] > Twenty-nine police officers in the western German state of North-Rhine Westphalia have been temporarily suspended after their unit was found to have shared extreme rightwing content on a WhatsApp group. > Images shared by the officers, most of whom are members of a unit in the town of Mülheim an der Ruhr, reportedly depicted Adolf Hitler, the swastika flag, a collage of a refugee inside a gas chamber and the shooting of a young black person. [2] > A far-right extremist has confessed to murdering a pro-refugee German politician who was found dead outside his house on 2 June having been shot in the head. [3] > A gunman killed nine people in two apparently racially motivated shootings at shisha bars in the German town of Hanau, police said. The suspect then killed himself, according to officers, after also killing his mother at his home. > [...] > The Bild newspaper said the gunman had expressed extreme rightwing views in a letter of confession he left behind. A video in which he explained his motives is believed to be part of the investigation. ---- [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/17/german-police-officers-suspended-for-sharing-neo-nazi-content https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/17/german-police-... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/26/far-right-suspect-confesses-to-killing-german-politician-walter-lubcke https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/26/far-right-susp... [3] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/19/shooting-germany-hanau-dead-several-people-shisha-near-frankfurt https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/19/shooting-germa...
  - usrn 4y ago
    That's why I said "effectively." Yes you can find small groups or individuals but if we want to trash an entire race based on behavior of small groups then maybe you should have another look at US homicide statistics. The Nazis in Germany have absolutely no political influence and no real cultural influence. The whole ideology is literally illegal there and people get fired just for talking about it.
    - nonstickcoating 4y ago
      This is not correct at all, sorry to inform you. For example, people like Götz Kubitschek[0] for example have close ties to the dominant groups in e.g. the AfD, his rethoric is full of antisemitism and fascist dog whistling. The "entnazification" never really happened. In the 60s, there were more people in the ministry of justice who had an active NSDAP membership during 1933-1945 than there were in the 30s and 40s. It took several decades to repeal fascist laws, influential politicians (federal minister e.g.[1]) stated his admiration of the Waffen-SS and held speeches full of anticommunism and antisemitism - these are the core tenants of german fascism and they get regurgitated ever since the few innocent German citizens were liberated at the end of WW2. One of the the main representatives of the german green party unironically defends the Person giving orders to fascist paramilitaries for the extrajudicial killing of communist and social democratic leaders in the 20s. The influence and long lasting after-effects of fascist thought and leadership in Germany must not be underestimated. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6tz_Kubitschek https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6tz_Kubitschek [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Josef_Strauss https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Josef_Strauss
      - usrn 4y ago
        >held speeches full of anticommunism What's wrong with anticommunism? Maybe his constituents don't want communism either.
        nonstickcoating 4y ago
        It's not about their personal preference of economical system vut about Strauss literally using nazi-rethoric. Anticommunism is a core part of that.
- SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
  I think this is whataboutism. I’m merely making it makes sense that white pride is viewed at less positively than black pride in a country that has experienced nationwide, systemic, brutally violent white supremacist behavior within living memory.
  - usrn 4y ago
    I think the original idea is much more whataboutist(?.) It's literally "What about the Nazis in a different country a century ago?"
brailsafe 4y ago
Ya, but a lot of the time you have ostensibly well-meaning people spread around the attitude that it's wrong to be intolerant of others, unless that person is white, or a man, or you're a transphobic woman if you didn't use a particular definition of woman, or you're a creep by default if you're a man. In the last 8 years this sort of rhetoric has been amplified more than ever before, and not just in the states (though arguably that's the dumb dumb epicenter). It also sounds like sort of meme right-wing talking points, and I'm tired of those conversations too (which are also amplified by social media in the same way), but they do come from somewhere. It shouldn't be controverial to say "This is a space that's welcoming for everyone, unless you start obviously making people feel like they don't belong. It's not ok to harass or attack someone because of their skin colour, or religion, or gender, no matter what that is."
- welshwelsh 4y ago
  I don't think I've ever experienced that. I mean, I've lived my whole life in the US, but never experienced anyone being intolerant of me because I am a man or because I am white, nor have I ever heard of that happening to anyone else. Honestly I just don't think that's a thing that ever happens. >It shouldn't be controversial to say "This is a space that's welcoming for everyone, unless you start obviously making people feel like they don't belong. It's not ok to harass or attack someone because of their skin colour, or religion, or gender, no matter what that is." But where is that controversial though? That's what we have now.
  - brailsafe 4y ago
    This was from a recent conversation I had in the world. In Canada, by someone I later discovered was regularly posting rants and shaming people and businesses on Instagram. They essentially accused me of drawing from hypothetical strawmen to paint myself as a victim, but all I said was (it's important that I said this after saying this is outdoor public space is basically a safe space from discrimination) "If a white straight man harassed or attacked someone because they're X, that's not ok, and they won't be welcome to stay. Do you think it would be ok if someone did the same, but they happened to be Y attacking someone because they're white or a man?" and they dodged the question, which to me justifies the question in the first place. I don't feel unsafe as whatever I am, and nobody should be made to. Seems like a pretty liberal viewpoint. I'm sick of people getting sucked into right wing YouTube and then trying to rope me into the most boring imaginable anti-cancel-culture shit on one side, and I'm also sick of the surprising reality of what they're pissed about actually sometimes happening, possibly as a result of both groups' own polarization. Not a lot, but enough to vibe me out from being around them, not remotely enough to be prejudiced against any particular identity. It just happens sometimes, it's a form of social grandstanding, and it's very tiresome.

usrn 4y ago

There are effectively no Nazis in Germany but there are still ethnostates and genocide in Africa. I really don't see how White people are special here. EDIT: As usual with the social justice crowd: no discussion just downvotes. It makes a lot of us feel like there legitimately is no argument for your position.

quantum_solanum 4y ago
> There are effectively no Nazis in Germany Gee, I wonder why people are downvoting an obvious fascist stooge. [1] > Twenty-nine police officers in the western German state of North-Rhine Westphalia have been temporarily suspended after their unit was found to have shared extreme rightwing content on a WhatsApp group. > Images shared by the officers, most of whom are members of a unit in the town of Mülheim an der Ruhr, reportedly depicted Adolf Hitler, the swastika flag, a collage of a refugee inside a gas chamber and the shooting of a young black person. [2] > A far-right extremist has confessed to murdering a pro-refugee German politician who was found dead outside his house on 2 June having been shot in the head. [3] > A gunman killed nine people in two apparently racially motivated shootings at shisha bars in the German town of Hanau, police said. The suspect then killed himself, according to officers, after also killing his mother at his home. > [...] > The Bild newspaper said the gunman had expressed extreme rightwing views in a letter of confession he left behind. A video in which he explained his motives is believed to be part of the investigation. ---- [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/17/german-police-officers-suspended-for-sharing-neo-nazi-content https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/17/german-police-... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/26/far-right-suspect-confesses-to-killing-german-politician-walter-lubcke https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/26/far-right-susp... [3] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/19/shooting-germany-hanau-dead-several-people-shisha-near-frankfurt https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/19/shooting-germa...
- usrn 4y ago
  That's why I said "effectively." Yes you can find small groups or individuals but if we want to trash an entire race based on behavior of small groups then maybe you should have another look at US homicide statistics. The Nazis in Germany have absolutely no political influence and no real cultural influence. The whole ideology is literally illegal there and people get fired just for talking about it.
  - nonstickcoating 4y ago
    This is not correct at all, sorry to inform you. For example, people like Götz Kubitschek[0] for example have close ties to the dominant groups in e.g. the AfD, his rethoric is full of antisemitism and fascist dog whistling. The "entnazification" never really happened. In the 60s, there were more people in the ministry of justice who had an active NSDAP membership during 1933-1945 than there were in the 30s and 40s. It took several decades to repeal fascist laws, influential politicians (federal minister e.g.[1]) stated his admiration of the Waffen-SS and held speeches full of anticommunism and antisemitism - these are the core tenants of german fascism and they get regurgitated ever since the few innocent German citizens were liberated at the end of WW2. One of the the main representatives of the german green party unironically defends the Person giving orders to fascist paramilitaries for the extrajudicial killing of communist and social democratic leaders in the 20s. The influence and long lasting after-effects of fascist thought and leadership in Germany must not be underestimated. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6tz_Kubitschek https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6tz_Kubitschek [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Josef_Strauss https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Josef_Strauss
    - usrn 4y ago
      >held speeches full of anticommunism What's wrong with anticommunism? Maybe his constituents don't want communism either.
      - nonstickcoating 4y ago
        It's not about their personal preference of economical system vut about Strauss literally using nazi-rethoric. Anticommunism is a core part of that.
SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
I think this is whataboutism. I’m merely making it makes sense that white pride is viewed at less positively than black pride in a country that has experienced nationwide, systemic, brutally violent white supremacist behavior within living memory.
- usrn 4y ago
  I think the original idea is much more whataboutist(?.) It's literally "What about the Nazis in a different country a century ago?"

brailsafe 4y ago

Ya, but a lot of the time you have ostensibly well-meaning people spread around the attitude that it's wrong to be intolerant of others, unless that person is white, or a man, or you're a transphobic woman if you didn't use a particular definition of woman, or you're a creep by default if you're a man. In the last 8 years this sort of rhetoric has been amplified more than ever before, and not just in the states (though arguably that's the dumb dumb epicenter). It also sounds like sort of meme right-wing talking points, and I'm tired of those conversations too (which are also amplified by social media in the same way), but they do come from somewhere. It shouldn't be controverial to say "This is a space that's welcoming for everyone, unless you start obviously making people feel like they don't belong. It's not ok to harass or attack someone because of their skin colour, or religion, or gender, no matter what that is."

welshwelsh 4y ago
I don't think I've ever experienced that. I mean, I've lived my whole life in the US, but never experienced anyone being intolerant of me because I am a man or because I am white, nor have I ever heard of that happening to anyone else. Honestly I just don't think that's a thing that ever happens. >It shouldn't be controversial to say "This is a space that's welcoming for everyone, unless you start obviously making people feel like they don't belong. It's not ok to harass or attack someone because of their skin colour, or religion, or gender, no matter what that is." But where is that controversial though? That's what we have now.
- brailsafe 4y ago
  This was from a recent conversation I had in the world. In Canada, by someone I later discovered was regularly posting rants and shaming people and businesses on Instagram. They essentially accused me of drawing from hypothetical strawmen to paint myself as a victim, but all I said was (it's important that I said this after saying this is outdoor public space is basically a safe space from discrimination) "If a white straight man harassed or attacked someone because they're X, that's not ok, and they won't be welcome to stay. Do you think it would be ok if someone did the same, but they happened to be Y attacking someone because they're white or a man?" and they dodged the question, which to me justifies the question in the first place. I don't feel unsafe as whatever I am, and nobody should be made to. Seems like a pretty liberal viewpoint. I'm sick of people getting sucked into right wing YouTube and then trying to rope me into the most boring imaginable anti-cancel-culture shit on one side, and I'm also sick of the surprising reality of what they're pissed about actually sometimes happening, possibly as a result of both groups' own polarization. Not a lot, but enough to vibe me out from being around them, not remotely enough to be prejudiced against any particular identity. It just happens sometimes, it's a form of social grandstanding, and it's very tiresome.