3 ms·

The awful performance you can be stuck with when you can only use emulators and v8 is going to come back to haunt some of you, I believe. It is indeed easy to s

The awful performance you can be stuck with when you can only use emulators and v8 is going to come back to haunt some of you, I believe. It is indeed easy to sell something like this, as it looks easy to work with, the same way that no-code looks easy. But inevitably even native performance is not nearly enough and you need to employ algorithms that use 256- and 512-bit vector operations. At that point, we are talking about running natively on the CPU, and for that you need something that isn't just a web app. I remember I recently saw a lecture by an industry professional who took a Python algorithm and improved it 100 000x, in parts. That is, in stages he explained how to utilize the hardware on that particular machine, to improve the algorithm so much that it was hard to believe. Anyone have a link? I looked and I could not find it. It was a recent thing that I believe I saw on this site. When it comes to configuring web services: It is extremely important to configure them in such a way that you can fully or partially cache content, reducing costs. I get it, if you are a startup you need to move fast, but with the way things are going these days, you should have someone on your team who can at the very least deal with the basics of caching. You also cannot pre-initialize v8 as far as I know, so you inevitably end up putting it inside an emulator anyway, and guess what happens to the performance then? I could be wrong.

matthews2 4y ago
> You also cannot pre-initialize v8 as far as I know You can create a snapshot/image with V8 to reduce startup times (https://v8.dev/blog/custom-startup-snapshots https://v8.dev/blog/custom-startup-snapshots). Node already does this for some of its core libraries (https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/17058 https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/17058). There are plans to expose this functionality to users so that any application and libraries can be snapshotted (https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/35711 https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/35711).
lmc 4y ago
> I remember I recently saw a lecture by an industry professional who took a Python algorithm and improved it 100 000x, in parts. That is, in stages he explained how to utilize the hardware on that particular machine, to improve the algorithm so much that it was hard to believe. Anyone have a link? I suspect it's this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e08kOj2kISU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e08kOj2kISU
jitl 4y ago
> Even native performance is not nearly enough and you need to employ algorithms that use 256- and 512-bit vector operations. At that point, we are talking about running natively on the CPU, and for that you need something that isn't just a web app. Yes, as the article said - this is what WebAssembly is for. Shell : Executable :: Javascript : WebAssembly. WebAssembly supports wide SIMD instructions (https://v8.dev/features/simd https://v8.dev/features/simd) and many WebAssembly runtimes pre-compile the web assembly to native machine code (eg https://crates.io/crates/wasmer-compiler-llvm https://crates.io/crates/wasmer-compiler-llvm). In a way, you could think of WebAssembly like a more portable LLVM bitcode - it’s a compact, partially optimized representation of a program ready for an optimizing machine-specific compiler to lower to the native architecture. But, it’s also possible to interpret it in contexts that prefer fast start up.
shallow-mind 4y ago
> The awful performance you can be stuck with when you can only use emulators and v8 is going to come back to haunt some of you, I believe. It is indeed easy to sell something like this, as it looks easy to work with, the same way that no-code looks easy. But inevitably even native performance is not nearly enough and you need to employ algorithms that use 256- and 512-bit vector operations. At that point, we are talking about running natively on the CPU, and for that you need something that isn't just a web app. > I remember I recently saw a lecture by an industry professional who took a Python algorithm and improved it 100 000x, in parts. That is, in stages he explained how to utilize the hardware on that particular machine, to improve the algorithm so much that it was hard to believe. Anyone have a link? I looked and I could not find it. It was a recent thing that I believe I saw on this site. > When it comes to configuring web services: It is extremely important to configure them in such a way that you can fully or partially cache content, reducing costs. I get it, if you are a startup you need to move fast, but with the way things are going these days, you should have someone on your team who can at the very least deal with the basics of caching. > You also cannot pre-initialize v8 as far as I know, so you inevitably end up putting it inside an emulator anyway, and guess what happens to the performance then? I could be wrong. > The awful performance you can be stuck with when you can only use emulators and v8 is going to come back to haunt some of you, I believe. It is indeed easy to sell something like this, as it looks easy to work with, the same way that no-code looks easy. But inevitably even native performance is not nearly enough and you need to employ algorithms that use 256- and 512-bit vector operations. At that point, we are talking about running natively on the CPU, and for that you need something that isn't just a web app. > I remember I recently saw a lecture by an industry professional who took a Python algorithm and improved it 100 000x, in parts. That is, in stages he explained how to utilize the hardware on that particular machine, to improve the algorithm so much that it was hard to believe. Anyone have a link? I looked and I could not find it. It was a recent thing that I believe I saw on this site. > When it comes to configuring web services: It is extremely important to configure them in such a way that you can fully or partially cache content, reducing costs. I get it, if you are a startup you need to move fast, but with the way things are going these days, you should have someone on your team who can at the very least deal with the basics of caching. > You also cannot pre-initialize v8 as far as I know, so you inevitably end up putting it inside an emulator anyway, and guess what happens to the performance then? I could be wrong. > The awful performance you can be stuck with when you can only use emulators and v8 is going to come back to haunt some of you, I believe. It is indeed easy to sell something like this, as it looks easy to work with, the same way that no-code looks easy. But inevitably even native performance is not nearly enough and you need to employ algorithms that use 256- and 512-bit vector operations. At that point, we are talking about running natively on the CPU, and for that you need something that isn't just a web app. > I remember I recently saw a lecture by an industry professional who took a Python algorithm and improved it 100 000x, in parts. That is, in stages he explained how to utilize the hardware on that particular machine, to improve the algorithm so much that it was hard to believe. Anyone have a link? I looked and I could not find it. It was a recent thing that I believe I saw on this site. > When it comes to configuring web services: It is extremely important to configure them in such a way that you can fully or partially cache content, reducing costs. I get it, if you are a startup you need to move fast, but with the way things are going these days, you should have someone on your team who can at the very least deal with the basics of caching. > You also cannot pre-initialize v8 as far as I know, so you inevitably end up putting it inside an emulator anyway, and guess what happens to the performance then? I could be wrong.
shallow-mind 4y ago
Maybe this one: https://youtu.be/o7h_sYMk_oc https://youtu.be/o7h_sYMk_oc

matthews2 4y ago

> You also cannot pre-initialize v8 as far as I know You can create a snapshot/image with V8 to reduce startup times (https://v8.dev/blog/custom-startup-snapshots https://v8.dev/blog/custom-startup-snapshots). Node already does this for some of its core libraries (https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/17058 https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/17058). There are plans to expose this functionality to users so that any application and libraries can be snapshotted (https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/35711 https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/35711).

lmc 4y ago

> I remember I recently saw a lecture by an industry professional who took a Python algorithm and improved it 100 000x, in parts. That is, in stages he explained how to utilize the hardware on that particular machine, to improve the algorithm so much that it was hard to believe. Anyone have a link? I suspect it's this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e08kOj2kISU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e08kOj2kISU

jitl 4y ago

> Even native performance is not nearly enough and you need to employ algorithms that use 256- and 512-bit vector operations. At that point, we are talking about running natively on the CPU, and for that you need something that isn't just a web app. Yes, as the article said - this is what WebAssembly is for. Shell : Executable :: Javascript : WebAssembly. WebAssembly supports wide SIMD instructions (https://v8.dev/features/simd https://v8.dev/features/simd) and many WebAssembly runtimes pre-compile the web assembly to native machine code (eg https://crates.io/crates/wasmer-compiler-llvm https://crates.io/crates/wasmer-compiler-llvm). In a way, you could think of WebAssembly like a more portable LLVM bitcode - it’s a compact, partially optimized representation of a program ready for an optimizing machine-specific compiler to lower to the native architecture. But, it’s also possible to interpret it in contexts that prefer fast start up.

shallow-mind 4y ago

> The awful performance you can be stuck with when you can only use emulators and v8 is going to come back to haunt some of you, I believe. It is indeed easy to sell something like this, as it looks easy to work with, the same way that no-code looks easy. But inevitably even native performance is not nearly enough and you need to employ algorithms that use 256- and 512-bit vector operations. At that point, we are talking about running natively on the CPU, and for that you need something that isn't just a web app. > I remember I recently saw a lecture by an industry professional who took a Python algorithm and improved it 100 000x, in parts. That is, in stages he explained how to utilize the hardware on that particular machine, to improve the algorithm so much that it was hard to believe. Anyone have a link? I looked and I could not find it. It was a recent thing that I believe I saw on this site. > When it comes to configuring web services: It is extremely important to configure them in such a way that you can fully or partially cache content, reducing costs. I get it, if you are a startup you need to move fast, but with the way things are going these days, you should have someone on your team who can at the very least deal with the basics of caching. > You also cannot pre-initialize v8 as far as I know, so you inevitably end up putting it inside an emulator anyway, and guess what happens to the performance then? I could be wrong. > The awful performance you can be stuck with when you can only use emulators and v8 is going to come back to haunt some of you, I believe. It is indeed easy to sell something like this, as it looks easy to work with, the same way that no-code looks easy. But inevitably even native performance is not nearly enough and you need to employ algorithms that use 256- and 512-bit vector operations. At that point, we are talking about running natively on the CPU, and for that you need something that isn't just a web app. > I remember I recently saw a lecture by an industry professional who took a Python algorithm and improved it 100 000x, in parts. That is, in stages he explained how to utilize the hardware on that particular machine, to improve the algorithm so much that it was hard to believe. Anyone have a link? I looked and I could not find it. It was a recent thing that I believe I saw on this site. > When it comes to configuring web services: It is extremely important to configure them in such a way that you can fully or partially cache content, reducing costs. I get it, if you are a startup you need to move fast, but with the way things are going these days, you should have someone on your team who can at the very least deal with the basics of caching. > You also cannot pre-initialize v8 as far as I know, so you inevitably end up putting it inside an emulator anyway, and guess what happens to the performance then? I could be wrong. > The awful performance you can be stuck with when you can only use emulators and v8 is going to come back to haunt some of you, I believe. It is indeed easy to sell something like this, as it looks easy to work with, the same way that no-code looks easy. But inevitably even native performance is not nearly enough and you need to employ algorithms that use 256- and 512-bit vector operations. At that point, we are talking about running natively on the CPU, and for that you need something that isn't just a web app. > I remember I recently saw a lecture by an industry professional who took a Python algorithm and improved it 100 000x, in parts. That is, in stages he explained how to utilize the hardware on that particular machine, to improve the algorithm so much that it was hard to believe. Anyone have a link? I looked and I could not find it. It was a recent thing that I believe I saw on this site. > When it comes to configuring web services: It is extremely important to configure them in such a way that you can fully or partially cache content, reducing costs. I get it, if you are a startup you need to move fast, but with the way things are going these days, you should have someone on your team who can at the very least deal with the basics of caching. > You also cannot pre-initialize v8 as far as I know, so you inevitably end up putting it inside an emulator anyway, and guess what happens to the performance then? I could be wrong.

shallow-mind 4y ago

Maybe this one: https://youtu.be/o7h_sYMk_oc https://youtu.be/o7h_sYMk_oc