4 ms·

> Hoarding or panic buying is an example of bad-faith behavior. Panic buying hurts buyers without means to hoard. Yeah, if you’re not very profitable you won’t

> Hoarding or panic buying is an example of bad-faith behavior. Panic buying hurts buyers without means to hoard. Yeah, if you’re not very profitable you won’t be able to afford it. You’re not the best use of the good in question, i.e. the one that makes the most money. Cornering a market in anything is incredibly hard. Doing it motivates others to find substitutes or secure supply. That’s capitalism. If you don’t want to play find a different game.

rhn_mk1 5y ago
The main point of the parent is that free market is not fair. If developing a substitute takes ages, the market will remain awful for that long. Perhaps that's a game you want to play, but some pefer not to.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  IDK if "fair" is the right word here. Perhaps the word should be "completely flexible".
- strogonoff 5y ago
  I think free market can and should be fair in an ideal world where no one is trying to game the system. While we should strive to achieve that world, in meantime we need regulations that stop such actors. It looks like in this case relevant regulations are missing or not working as intended.
strogonoff 5y ago
Capitalism (the way I understand it, free market and all) does not imply participating in bad faith. The fact that in the West there are bad-faith players that take advantage of the system does not mean it is normal. See the grocery example. It works for everybody, suppliers, sellers and consumers, as long as no one abuses the system. However, if one does want to go that route, it’s achievable; in a small market a single participant can ruin things for everyone, and in a larger one multiple participants can do the same by acting in accord. It looks like capitalism is sometimes taken to mean an extreme zero-sum form of free market where everybody is out to win at the expense of others. Proponents of centralized dispensation by an all-powerful government often bring this up, but is that the mainstream meaning of the term? For the record, I don’t think the requirement of market participants to act in good faith is a bug. I believe the existence of malicious actors is not fundamentally inevitable, and mutual trust is empowering.
- barry-cotter 5y ago
  Who is participating in bad faith? If you want long term security of supply pay for it. Suppliers love long term contracts and orders. Buyers usually don’t go for them because it’s cheaper on average not to. No one signed a contract. The market price moved. That’s capitalism. If you want to prevent it happening again you can pay for it, by having a long term contract, stockpiling or multiple suppliers. Many, many markets work fine without enduring personal relations. If you want security of supply of commodity parts buy a stockpile.
  - strogonoff 5y ago
    > Who is participating in bad faith? Hoarders. (In this instance, as per upstream comments, possibly coordinated, possibly by CCP.) There’re fairly illustrative examples in my comment that you are ignoring. You should address them if you object to that idea. > If you want long term security of supply pay for it. A single player cannot outbid a state and/or many players acting maliciously in accord.
    - zozbot234 5y ago
      Hoarding is not in "bad faith". If people anticipate a shortage in the future, storing some of the existing supply is socially beneficial. It raises current prices less than it lowers future ones.
      - strogonoff 5y ago
        The problem being discussed is when it wipes the supply, isn’t it?
    - ido 5y ago
      Maybe a more relatable example: ticket scalping. These are people who rush to buy tickets to popular concerts or sports events and then resell them at the venue priced much higher than sale value (and a lot higher than the venue/artist/sports team got). Are these people adding value in any way or form or just leeching?

rhn_mk1 5y ago

The main point of the parent is that free market is not fair. If developing a substitute takes ages, the market will remain awful for that long. Perhaps that's a game you want to play, but some pefer not to.

inglor_cz 5y ago
IDK if "fair" is the right word here. Perhaps the word should be "completely flexible".
strogonoff 5y ago
I think free market can and should be fair in an ideal world where no one is trying to game the system. While we should strive to achieve that world, in meantime we need regulations that stop such actors. It looks like in this case relevant regulations are missing or not working as intended.

strogonoff 5y ago

Capitalism (the way I understand it, free market and all) does not imply participating in bad faith. The fact that in the West there are bad-faith players that take advantage of the system does not mean it is normal. See the grocery example. It works for everybody, suppliers, sellers and consumers, as long as no one abuses the system. However, if one does want to go that route, it’s achievable; in a small market a single participant can ruin things for everyone, and in a larger one multiple participants can do the same by acting in accord. It looks like capitalism is sometimes taken to mean an extreme zero-sum form of free market where everybody is out to win at the expense of others. Proponents of centralized dispensation by an all-powerful government often bring this up, but is that the mainstream meaning of the term? For the record, I don’t think the requirement of market participants to act in good faith is a bug. I believe the existence of malicious actors is not fundamentally inevitable, and mutual trust is empowering.

barry-cotter 5y ago
Who is participating in bad faith? If you want long term security of supply pay for it. Suppliers love long term contracts and orders. Buyers usually don’t go for them because it’s cheaper on average not to. No one signed a contract. The market price moved. That’s capitalism. If you want to prevent it happening again you can pay for it, by having a long term contract, stockpiling or multiple suppliers. Many, many markets work fine without enduring personal relations. If you want security of supply of commodity parts buy a stockpile.
- strogonoff 5y ago
  > Who is participating in bad faith? Hoarders. (In this instance, as per upstream comments, possibly coordinated, possibly by CCP.) There’re fairly illustrative examples in my comment that you are ignoring. You should address them if you object to that idea. > If you want long term security of supply pay for it. A single player cannot outbid a state and/or many players acting maliciously in accord.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    Hoarding is not in "bad faith". If people anticipate a shortage in the future, storing some of the existing supply is socially beneficial. It raises current prices less than it lowers future ones.
    - strogonoff 5y ago
      The problem being discussed is when it wipes the supply, isn’t it?
  - ido 5y ago
    Maybe a more relatable example: ticket scalping. These are people who rush to buy tickets to popular concerts or sports events and then resell them at the venue priced much higher than sale value (and a lot higher than the venue/artist/sports team got). Are these people adding value in any way or form or just leeching?