5 ms·

There was a comment on HN about a year ago by somebody that grew up in India, and being Pakistani i relate to it a lot as well. Specifically, it mentioned that

There was a comment on HN about a year ago by somebody that grew up in India, and being Pakistani i relate to it a lot as well. Specifically, it mentioned that these 'games' and people choosing one or two games out of a great number of games available out there seems like a uniquely North American thing (as far as we can tell from our own limited exposure to other societies). So while you folks had the jock, the nerd, the artist etc. , we had schools, teachers and parents that taught us we should strive to excel at everything, i.e. play every game and try to play it well. Its a little disappointing to be put into a bucket by North American folks because they assume everyone is good at just one or two games. Not trying to be disrespectful, but i personally also think a little less of people that take so long to come to the realization that the author did in the article. A little ironic, if you think about it.

koonsolo 4y ago
I'm from EU, and I agree with you that this is a North American thing.
- chrisco255 4y ago
  When you say North America, does that include Mexico and Cuba and Canada? Or are we talking the USA here?
  - koonsolo 4y ago
    USA. No idea that Canada has this same mentality. Good thing I didn't use "America" ;).
    - arcosdev 4y ago
      Very alive and well in Canada. Canadian and US culture have many similarities.
- t-3 4y ago
  I'm from the US, and it's a hollywood thing.
Bayart 4y ago
While that sort of « hobbie tribalism » is definitely a North American trope, I think the main point (it's more likely for people to have incentives aligned in a way that you don't understand than it is for them to be stupid) stands.
nikanj 4y ago
I'm from the EU, and after moving to North America with my partner I realized you can't just part-time anything in NA. No matter what you are (goth/nerd/cyclist/painter/activist/etc), you have to dial it to 11 and be Really Serious about it. It was weird feeling like a wannabe at all of my hobbies, because I merely liked them, I wasn't serious about it with a goal-oriented diet+exercise regimen aimed for fast gains
- horns4lyfe 4y ago
  I don’t really get where you’re coming from on this. Who is telling you that you have to dial it to 11? The vast majority of people I know have lots of varied hobbies and interests and very rarely are they anything beyond casual interests. That’s one of the things I like about living here, is that people have lots of casual interests, and no one really thinks much of it. For example, I have lots of friends that are into playing music, but very few that actually perform. I suppose if you expect people to applaud you for dabbling, you’d be disappointed, but that’s true everywhere.
ahilsa 4y ago
Reminds me very strongly of http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html. Why is the distinction so high in pg's high school? Is this at par with everyone's experience?
pySSK 4y ago
Interesting point. I came to Canada from India just before high-school. My friends and I were into car stuff then and I remember saying that I prefer British auto magazines over American ones because the British ones were more general interest whereas the American ones were much more nerdy and specialized.
AussieWog93 4y ago
Is it, though? I've never been to India/Pakistan, but just knowing some of the migrants I've met you guys seem to be much the same as us. Some play the status game (first to get a shitty BMW wins), others play the "knowledge" game. Some play the "work your arse off to show how much of a man you are" game, others play the "work as little as possible to show how much of a man you are" game.
- medo-bear 4y ago
  i started school in the balkans and came to australia midway through. one of the key things that struck me was the divide between "nerds" and "cool" kids. this divide simply didnt exist where i was from and usually the cool kids were ones that excelled in everything. actually physical fitness is (was?) a huge and very strict part of the school curriculum, starting from primary school. this might however be a remnant of socialism. sport periods in australian schools on the other hand were a joke (bludge subject). moreover i felt that in the balkans kids that performed poorly (in all/any subjects) were generally more prone to get picked on by other kids edit: however i have to say that i dont think that this is an east/west thing, but possibly an anglosphere issue. in germany i have the feeling that kids have a qualitatively healthier and more rounded relationship to schooling (and eachother) than in australia
  - AussieWog93 4y ago
    Not denying what you're saying at all about the nerd/jock thing being a weird artifact of the West, but that's not the point of the article. It was talking about the fact that all different kinds of "games" exist and nobody is playing all of them. Some people are playing the "bang as many chicks as you can" game, others are playing the "be faithful to one woman" game, and some aren't playing either of those games at all. Sure, that particular jock/nerd game might not exist across cultures, but other games do.
    - medo-bear 4y ago
      sure. the article is good. i just had in mind the grandparents interpretation visavis cultural differences. i found it interesting since on my first reading i imagined brad as a typical childhood as described to me as personal experiences of my asian (incl indian) friends and i found it interesting that they have an opposite interpretation whith which my experiences also align somewhat some people play the maths game, some people play the school game, some people play the philosophy game, etc. its an interesting simple take on life. what is an interesting problem to me is how to optimise for the games we choose to play while taking into account societal pressures to specialize in one game
darkerside 4y ago
I think some of this is related to America being a nation of immigrants. Many of us have language barriers with our own parents. We don't always look like our teachers. Nobody explains to us how the world works. We just need to figure it out.
ZeroGravitas 4y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Cultures https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Cultures Talks about this as a cultural thing. I think people in the west are still surprised that nerds might weightlift or jocks might be really smart.
- Ma8ee 4y ago
  And when you say "the west" you really mean US?
- nicoburns 4y ago
  > I think people in the west are still surprised that nerds might weightlift or jocks might be really smart. I'd say that this is even more specifically a US thing. Perhaps it's just exaggerated on TV, but while there is a little bit of this attitude in the UK, I don't anything like the binary split there is portrayed in the US.
  - sleepymoose 4y ago
    Even further, in my experience this view varies quite wildly depending on where you're at in the states, both geographically and economically. I grew up in a very small, rural public school. Since it was such a small school (my graduating class was < 50) many people did it all. AP classes, played multiple sports, played in the band or sang choir, etc. There was almost no siloing into the expected social "roles" that are common place in media such as jocks or geeks. Everyone just did their own thing. On the other hand, my partner attended a school 15 minutes away that was more than 5x the size and had a much different culture, much so more inline with stereotyping to fit the "norms".
    - ryandrake 4y ago
      Yea, same here. I didn't see any of the TV tropes in my high school. The sports jocks also tended to be in the top of the class academically. The most talented artist in our class was also the league and division champ cross country runner. Our valedictorian and the rest of the top-10 were active in the band, in sports, on the student council, in yearbook, everything. The divisions were not between nerds and jocks and preps and band-os and artists: It was basically people who did things and people who didn't do things.

koonsolo 4y ago

I'm from EU, and I agree with you that this is a North American thing.

chrisco255 4y ago
When you say North America, does that include Mexico and Cuba and Canada? Or are we talking the USA here?
- koonsolo 4y ago
  USA. No idea that Canada has this same mentality. Good thing I didn't use "America" ;).
  - arcosdev 4y ago
    Very alive and well in Canada. Canadian and US culture have many similarities.
t-3 4y ago
I'm from the US, and it's a hollywood thing.

Bayart 4y ago

While that sort of « hobbie tribalism » is definitely a North American trope, I think the main point (it's more likely for people to have incentives aligned in a way that you don't understand than it is for them to be stupid) stands.

nikanj 4y ago

I'm from the EU, and after moving to North America with my partner I realized you can't just part-time anything in NA. No matter what you are (goth/nerd/cyclist/painter/activist/etc), you have to dial it to 11 and be Really Serious about it. It was weird feeling like a wannabe at all of my hobbies, because I merely liked them, I wasn't serious about it with a goal-oriented diet+exercise regimen aimed for fast gains

horns4lyfe 4y ago
I don’t really get where you’re coming from on this. Who is telling you that you have to dial it to 11? The vast majority of people I know have lots of varied hobbies and interests and very rarely are they anything beyond casual interests. That’s one of the things I like about living here, is that people have lots of casual interests, and no one really thinks much of it. For example, I have lots of friends that are into playing music, but very few that actually perform. I suppose if you expect people to applaud you for dabbling, you’d be disappointed, but that’s true everywhere.

ahilsa 4y ago

Reminds me very strongly of http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html. Why is the distinction so high in pg's high school? Is this at par with everyone's experience?

pySSK 4y ago

Interesting point. I came to Canada from India just before high-school. My friends and I were into car stuff then and I remember saying that I prefer British auto magazines over American ones because the British ones were more general interest whereas the American ones were much more nerdy and specialized.

AussieWog93 4y ago

Is it, though? I've never been to India/Pakistan, but just knowing some of the migrants I've met you guys seem to be much the same as us. Some play the status game (first to get a shitty BMW wins), others play the "knowledge" game. Some play the "work your arse off to show how much of a man you are" game, others play the "work as little as possible to show how much of a man you are" game.

medo-bear 4y ago
i started school in the balkans and came to australia midway through. one of the key things that struck me was the divide between "nerds" and "cool" kids. this divide simply didnt exist where i was from and usually the cool kids were ones that excelled in everything. actually physical fitness is (was?) a huge and very strict part of the school curriculum, starting from primary school. this might however be a remnant of socialism. sport periods in australian schools on the other hand were a joke (bludge subject). moreover i felt that in the balkans kids that performed poorly (in all/any subjects) were generally more prone to get picked on by other kids edit: however i have to say that i dont think that this is an east/west thing, but possibly an anglosphere issue. in germany i have the feeling that kids have a qualitatively healthier and more rounded relationship to schooling (and eachother) than in australia
- AussieWog93 4y ago
  Not denying what you're saying at all about the nerd/jock thing being a weird artifact of the West, but that's not the point of the article. It was talking about the fact that all different kinds of "games" exist and nobody is playing all of them. Some people are playing the "bang as many chicks as you can" game, others are playing the "be faithful to one woman" game, and some aren't playing either of those games at all. Sure, that particular jock/nerd game might not exist across cultures, but other games do.
  - medo-bear 4y ago
    sure. the article is good. i just had in mind the grandparents interpretation visavis cultural differences. i found it interesting since on my first reading i imagined brad as a typical childhood as described to me as personal experiences of my asian (incl indian) friends and i found it interesting that they have an opposite interpretation whith which my experiences also align somewhat some people play the maths game, some people play the school game, some people play the philosophy game, etc. its an interesting simple take on life. what is an interesting problem to me is how to optimise for the games we choose to play while taking into account societal pressures to specialize in one game

darkerside 4y ago

I think some of this is related to America being a nation of immigrants. Many of us have language barriers with our own parents. We don't always look like our teachers. Nobody explains to us how the world works. We just need to figure it out.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Cultures https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Cultures Talks about this as a cultural thing. I think people in the west are still surprised that nerds might weightlift or jocks might be really smart.

Ma8ee 4y ago
And when you say "the west" you really mean US?
nicoburns 4y ago
> I think people in the west are still surprised that nerds might weightlift or jocks might be really smart. I'd say that this is even more specifically a US thing. Perhaps it's just exaggerated on TV, but while there is a little bit of this attitude in the UK, I don't anything like the binary split there is portrayed in the US.
- sleepymoose 4y ago
  Even further, in my experience this view varies quite wildly depending on where you're at in the states, both geographically and economically. I grew up in a very small, rural public school. Since it was such a small school (my graduating class was < 50) many people did it all. AP classes, played multiple sports, played in the band or sang choir, etc. There was almost no siloing into the expected social "roles" that are common place in media such as jocks or geeks. Everyone just did their own thing. On the other hand, my partner attended a school 15 minutes away that was more than 5x the size and had a much different culture, much so more inline with stereotyping to fit the "norms".
  - ryandrake 4y ago
    Yea, same here. I didn't see any of the TV tropes in my high school. The sports jocks also tended to be in the top of the class academically. The most talented artist in our class was also the league and division champ cross country runner. Our valedictorian and the rest of the top-10 were active in the band, in sports, on the student council, in yearbook, everything. The divisions were not between nerds and jocks and preps and band-os and artists: It was basically people who did things and people who didn't do things.