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Parent of a teen, one anecdote to add. You see what all your friends are doing all the time. Every gathering or event that you where not a part of you see, some

Parent of a teen, one anecdote to add. You see what all your friends are doing all the time. Every gathering or event that you where not a part of you see, sometimes in real time. People hate being excluded, and this greatly amplifies this feeling. I'm certain I missed out on a ton of cool stuff as a kid, but at least I didn't have to see it.

abdel_nasser 4y ago
exactly. the equation has changed. people who dont fit in are now even more fucked. everyone is obligated to play this high stakes game that nobody asked for and that wasnt filtered through any kind of intelligent societal deliberation. nobody seems to be worried that kids make the rules in public schools, they bully each other viciously and kids who graduate from the system cant point to the country of portugal on a map. its full blown insanity.
- DrSiemer 4y ago
  But most of them become very skilled in navigating the social media landscape, which is what actually matters to them. And the people that don't fit in will usually put more energy in other ways to express themselves and have a much higher chance of becoming Truly Interesting People, if they make it through that pressure cooker. It's tough and I'm glad I'm not a part of it, but it's not the end of all cohesion in society that some make it out to be.
  - abdel_nasser 4y ago
    they will be skilled at something although im not sure it will be anything to do with socializing. and saying that outcasts will just be more likely to blossom because of it is just speculation. at a certain point in history man began to eat plants and adopt a sedentary agricultural lifestyle. there were many people who were made sick by eating plants and very little meat or fat. very, very sick. there are still echos of it in the population today. was it a positive thing for all the skills of the past to be thrown away and a large chunk of people to be sacrificed because they werent compatible with the new way? sometimes a societal shift eliminates an entire class of people. youre wrong because you try to paint it like its zero sum for all classes of people. in reality, if it is zero sum its only because what we lose in sacrifice we gain in progress. can you believe this has been going on for ten thousand years and still it doesnt really have a name?
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    Dealing with school bullies and other unpleasantness is a useful skill for adult life. Dealing with the social media rat race is merely a "skill" to become a good little consumer to generate more "engagement" for the social media companies later in life.
  - Gareth321 4y ago
    That's kind of the issue. A lot of them are committing suicide. Many more end up permanently scarred. Mental health issues are no joke. The author, Haidt, will himself recommend the concept of anti-fragility. Which is essentially toughening kids through gradual and manageable amounts of adversity. Yet even he sees no value in social media for this process. In other words, social media is not a net good for kids. They don't end up more well-adjusted as human beings.
_huayra_ 4y ago
There's a difference between hearing about a social event that you missed after the fact and seeing it going on live without you in real time. High school was hard enough for me when the web was just barely coming out of its primordial state of "some nerdy stuff for dweebs". I also can't imagine the magnitude and speed of social and interpersonal relationships that happens as a result of social media and just instant communication. Trying to navigate that as a teen is just something I can't comprehend, before one learns how to truly be equanimous as an adult who has a separate identity from how they are perceived by others.
silisili 4y ago
Similar, but different. I don't let my child use social media at all, and limited to 30 mins screen time total a day. She's excluded in that all her friends use TikTok, and she can't. Maybe it's for the best. My parents used to say 'if all your friends jumped off a bridge...', and I hated it, so I haven't used that one yet. I'm trying to rely on actual merits instead of follower cliches.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Kind of a shit situation where things like TikTok are quite obviously harmful and yet universally used so you become the odd one out for not using it.
  - noisy_boy 4y ago
    Analogous to the whole nerd thing being made fun of until being a nerd itself became a culture. Hopefully social media goes the way of the cigarettes ... harmful, profitable and still used but not cool anymore.
- paulcole 4y ago
  I’ll tell you that’s how my parents were about some stuff. Excluding me from stuff my peers were doing because they thought they knew best. They were mostly wrong and I don’t really talk to them today. Better hope you’re right.
  - silisili 4y ago
    Sorry to hear that. I think all parenting is just hoping you know best and doing best for the child. I have no rebuttal because maybe I have it all wrong.
  - abyssin 4y ago
    On the other hand, my parents didn’t let me watch TV or play video games and I’m thankful for it. I didn’t talk to them for a few years, but today I’ve accepted many of their flaws and can better focus on what they can bring to my life. As a parent myself, I’m not too sure about the best course of action, but I sure believe I want to introduce my kids progressively to activities that require a lot of knowledge about themselves not to be harmful.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
nullc 4y ago
Or seeing it presented in ways that make it seem much cooler: Lots of events I've been to look way more amazing in pictures people post then they actually were being there. :)
- silisili 4y ago
  As someone who lives near a beach, I cannot tell you how true this is. I used to fish a lot, and would constantly see younger people, usually but not always women, come near me (because I'm away from the crowds) and setup a tripod and spend 20 or so minutes taking different selfies, then leaving. I can 100% guarantee you the vast majority of those were going on instagram, writing a long story about how a day at the beach is good for your soul, etc...when in reality they just drove to the beach, took a few photos, then went home.

abdel_nasser 4y ago

exactly. the equation has changed. people who dont fit in are now even more fucked. everyone is obligated to play this high stakes game that nobody asked for and that wasnt filtered through any kind of intelligent societal deliberation. nobody seems to be worried that kids make the rules in public schools, they bully each other viciously and kids who graduate from the system cant point to the country of portugal on a map. its full blown insanity.

DrSiemer 4y ago
But most of them become very skilled in navigating the social media landscape, which is what actually matters to them. And the people that don't fit in will usually put more energy in other ways to express themselves and have a much higher chance of becoming Truly Interesting People, if they make it through that pressure cooker. It's tough and I'm glad I'm not a part of it, but it's not the end of all cohesion in society that some make it out to be.
- abdel_nasser 4y ago
  they will be skilled at something although im not sure it will be anything to do with socializing. and saying that outcasts will just be more likely to blossom because of it is just speculation. at a certain point in history man began to eat plants and adopt a sedentary agricultural lifestyle. there were many people who were made sick by eating plants and very little meat or fat. very, very sick. there are still echos of it in the population today. was it a positive thing for all the skills of the past to be thrown away and a large chunk of people to be sacrificed because they werent compatible with the new way? sometimes a societal shift eliminates an entire class of people. youre wrong because you try to paint it like its zero sum for all classes of people. in reality, if it is zero sum its only because what we lose in sacrifice we gain in progress. can you believe this has been going on for ten thousand years and still it doesnt really have a name?
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  Dealing with school bullies and other unpleasantness is a useful skill for adult life. Dealing with the social media rat race is merely a "skill" to become a good little consumer to generate more "engagement" for the social media companies later in life.
- Gareth321 4y ago
  That's kind of the issue. A lot of them are committing suicide. Many more end up permanently scarred. Mental health issues are no joke. The author, Haidt, will himself recommend the concept of anti-fragility. Which is essentially toughening kids through gradual and manageable amounts of adversity. Yet even he sees no value in social media for this process. In other words, social media is not a net good for kids. They don't end up more well-adjusted as human beings.

_huayra_ 4y ago

There's a difference between hearing about a social event that you missed after the fact and seeing it going on live without you in real time. High school was hard enough for me when the web was just barely coming out of its primordial state of "some nerdy stuff for dweebs". I also can't imagine the magnitude and speed of social and interpersonal relationships that happens as a result of social media and just instant communication. Trying to navigate that as a teen is just something I can't comprehend, before one learns how to truly be equanimous as an adult who has a separate identity from how they are perceived by others.

silisili 4y ago

Similar, but different. I don't let my child use social media at all, and limited to 30 mins screen time total a day. She's excluded in that all her friends use TikTok, and she can't. Maybe it's for the best. My parents used to say 'if all your friends jumped off a bridge...', and I hated it, so I haven't used that one yet. I'm trying to rely on actual merits instead of follower cliches.

Gigachad 4y ago
Kind of a shit situation where things like TikTok are quite obviously harmful and yet universally used so you become the odd one out for not using it.
- noisy_boy 4y ago
  Analogous to the whole nerd thing being made fun of until being a nerd itself became a culture. Hopefully social media goes the way of the cigarettes ... harmful, profitable and still used but not cool anymore.
paulcole 4y ago
I’ll tell you that’s how my parents were about some stuff. Excluding me from stuff my peers were doing because they thought they knew best. They were mostly wrong and I don’t really talk to them today. Better hope you’re right.
- silisili 4y ago
  Sorry to hear that. I think all parenting is just hoping you know best and doing best for the child. I have no rebuttal because maybe I have it all wrong.
- abyssin 4y ago
  On the other hand, my parents didn’t let me watch TV or play video games and I’m thankful for it. I didn’t talk to them for a few years, but today I’ve accepted many of their flaws and can better focus on what they can bring to my life. As a parent myself, I’m not too sure about the best course of action, but I sure believe I want to introduce my kids progressively to activities that require a lot of knowledge about themselves not to be harmful.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

nullc 4y ago

Or seeing it presented in ways that make it seem much cooler: Lots of events I've been to look way more amazing in pictures people post then they actually were being there. :)

silisili 4y ago
As someone who lives near a beach, I cannot tell you how true this is. I used to fish a lot, and would constantly see younger people, usually but not always women, come near me (because I'm away from the crowds) and setup a tripod and spend 20 or so minutes taking different selfies, then leaving. I can 100% guarantee you the vast majority of those were going on instagram, writing a long story about how a day at the beach is good for your soul, etc...when in reality they just drove to the beach, took a few photos, then went home.