7 ms·

> Whether home or away, both teams in any given game can pull from the same roster I am in New Zealand and know nothing about ice hockey, but wouldn't it be ri

> Whether home or away, both teams in any given game can pull from the same roster I am in New Zealand and know nothing about ice hockey, but wouldn't it be risky to accept your opponents recommendation? Wouldn't a fan of their own team be a better bet, even if a worse player?

eli 4y ago
If people got called up all the time that might be a problem. But it'd be impossible to justify the cost of flying extra players around, so the practice would simply end if that were a concern. I don't think many people with a once in a lifetime chance to play in a real NHL game are going to take a dive just so the home team wins.
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  > it'd be impossible to justify the cost of flying extra players around, I doubt traveling expense is the limiter, how many years of that would it take to reach even the NHL minimum salary? Teams would try to game the system if they were given more choice, and it'd lead to more decent goalies riding the bench rather than playing in smaller leagues.
  - pastaguy1 4y ago
    It's actually kind of a tough problem. A reserved fan ebug is a no go for reasons you stated and others. An extra roster spot might work, but that's potentially someone playing not very much hockey. OTOH, we already have that scenario since it's a 23 person roster. The thing is, this latest ebug appearance was kind of an important game. Goalies seem to get hurt more often now (someone just got hurt tonight), and as good as these stories are, you probably don't want to see an ebug when it matters. Maybe just add the roster spot after the trade deadline or something
    - boomboomsubban 4y ago
      The obvious solution is to allow a trainer/coach to suit up in emergencies, teams travel with enough personnel that I'd be shocked if someone isn't as capable as most of the EBUGs. And I do think keeping talent playing rather than coaching is one of the primary reasons they don't change the rule. With my rule change, if you're a 24 year old ECHL goalie how much money would it take to accept an EBUG "trainer" job? How would the cap deal with that could also be an issue.
      - smeej 4y ago
        Each team brings their own third goalie when it really matters, in the playoffs, and yeah, sometimes it's one of the coaches or trainers, but more often they just bring somebody who plays goalie a lot in his free time, just not at a professional level.
        boomboomsubban 4y ago
        The third goalie would need to be one of their 50 players under contract, so it'd have to be a professional.
        smeej 4y ago
        Doesn't mean they do a lot of their playing at a professional level.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
Mountain_Skies 4y ago
The opportunity to show off your skills, even if sub-par by NHL standards, likely would outweigh the pride from helping your team get a questionable win in an 82 game season.
kgermino 4y ago
I think there’s a few reasons they don’t worry about it: 1. This very rarely comes up at all. 2. These guys aren’t usually that good (by NHL standards) and you’ve probably lost the game anyway. You’re relying on your defense to keep the puck away from them more than you’re relying on them to excel. 3. (Probably most important to your point). This is one of the best days in this guy’s life. He’s In an NHL game and will be in the highlight reels. Playing well and stopping his team’s power forward from scoring is a massive high that does way more than his preferred team winning or losing.
- ascagnel_ 4y ago
  > These guys aren’t usually that good (by NHL standards) and you’ve probably lost the game anyway. Interestingly, EBUGs have a pretty good record -- teams using an EBUG have won 3 of 4 games they've been used in. I think #3 factors into it: the players know that a "normal" (to be clear: while EBUGs aren't NHL caliber, they're not scrubs or beer leaguers, either) guy has gotten the night of a lifetime, and they'll (based on a subjective eye test) play more tightly in their own end.
  - dmurray 4y ago
    > Interestingly, EBUGs have a pretty good record -- teams using an EBUG have won 3 of 4 games This is mostly coincidental: the goalies only appeared in the dying minutes or seconds of games their teams were already leading.
    - ascagnel_ 4y ago
      My point is more that, given the wide skill gap between an NHL-caliber player and a EBUG, there's a reasonable chance that the EBUG would "blow" the lead (a hockey goaltender is one of the most consequential positions in sports, probably second to a gridiron football quarterback). Of the four EBUG appearances, three were no-decision games (the lead didn't change after the EBUG came in) and one win (a come-from-behind victory after the EBUG came in).
  - Delk 4y ago
OJFord 4y ago
I am in the UK so have as little right to talk about it really, though I did play in university. Basically this is so rare, it's in the name 'emergency backup', teams take a backup (sometimes third even) to away games; they have to both be injured probably in the same game (because if beforehand they'd roster someone else, call them up from an associated junior team say) for this to happen. And the fan/local has never trained with the team. They're nowhere near NHL level. They're basically 'traffic in front of the net' to whichever team, so it really doesn't make a difference, I don't expect. (And psychologically for the fan/local, they probably want to give it their all in their moment in the limelight? Why throw your one night in the NHL just because the wrong team got so unlikely injured?)
Delk 4y ago
That's not really a choice for the visiting team to make. A team can only have two goalies dressed for a game. The emergency backup goalie rule (which is unique to the NHL, AFAIK) is that the home team has to have an emergency goalie booked who's available as a stand-in for either team should both of the team's dressed goalies get injured during the game. Either team would only realistically take that option if they have no other choice. It's a relatively rare occurrence, and I imagine that anybody who ends up playing as an emergency backup would make an honest effort out of sportsmanship, and also because it's an unique opportunity and experience, even if it's for the visiting team. The emergency backup goalie is essentially the ultimate underdog and ends up being the fan favourite for the game. Sometimes the home crowd has started to cheer for him even though he was playing for the visiting team. I don't know what would be going through the emergency goalie's head if they had to step in for a really high-stakes game, though. I don't think that has happened so far.
- rectang 4y ago
  The "Zamboni Goalie" David Ayers, provided by the Toronto Maple Leafs when both goalies for the visiting Carolina Hurricanes went down, notched a win for the visitors.
  - aeroplanetext 4y ago
    I suppose that, given the backup goalie is local, even if you lose, you win. Cheer on the hometown hero!
- zoomablemind 4y ago
  > ...The emergency backup goalie is essentially the ultimate underdog and ends up being the fan favourite for the game. I always thought that EBUG is an excellent PR device. It just feels to be so much "For the love of the game", something that fans on each side can relate. Win or lose is situative, but the EBUG effect after such games is always humanising. So the lucky activated EBUGs are in the goal to simply play hockey, they are ultimately NHL ambassadors.
  - 4y ago

eli 4y ago

If people got called up all the time that might be a problem. But it'd be impossible to justify the cost of flying extra players around, so the practice would simply end if that were a concern. I don't think many people with a once in a lifetime chance to play in a real NHL game are going to take a dive just so the home team wins.

boomboomsubban 4y ago
> it'd be impossible to justify the cost of flying extra players around, I doubt traveling expense is the limiter, how many years of that would it take to reach even the NHL minimum salary? Teams would try to game the system if they were given more choice, and it'd lead to more decent goalies riding the bench rather than playing in smaller leagues.
- pastaguy1 4y ago
  It's actually kind of a tough problem. A reserved fan ebug is a no go for reasons you stated and others. An extra roster spot might work, but that's potentially someone playing not very much hockey. OTOH, we already have that scenario since it's a 23 person roster. The thing is, this latest ebug appearance was kind of an important game. Goalies seem to get hurt more often now (someone just got hurt tonight), and as good as these stories are, you probably don't want to see an ebug when it matters. Maybe just add the roster spot after the trade deadline or something
  - boomboomsubban 4y ago
    The obvious solution is to allow a trainer/coach to suit up in emergencies, teams travel with enough personnel that I'd be shocked if someone isn't as capable as most of the EBUGs. And I do think keeping talent playing rather than coaching is one of the primary reasons they don't change the rule. With my rule change, if you're a 24 year old ECHL goalie how much money would it take to accept an EBUG "trainer" job? How would the cap deal with that could also be an issue.
    - smeej 4y ago
      Each team brings their own third goalie when it really matters, in the playoffs, and yeah, sometimes it's one of the coaches or trainers, but more often they just bring somebody who plays goalie a lot in his free time, just not at a professional level.
      - boomboomsubban 4y ago
        The third goalie would need to be one of their 50 players under contract, so it'd have to be a professional.
        smeej 4y ago
        Doesn't mean they do a lot of their playing at a professional level.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]

Mountain_Skies 4y ago

The opportunity to show off your skills, even if sub-par by NHL standards, likely would outweigh the pride from helping your team get a questionable win in an 82 game season.

kgermino 4y ago

I think there’s a few reasons they don’t worry about it: 1. This very rarely comes up at all. 2. These guys aren’t usually that good (by NHL standards) and you’ve probably lost the game anyway. You’re relying on your defense to keep the puck away from them more than you’re relying on them to excel. 3. (Probably most important to your point). This is one of the best days in this guy’s life. He’s In an NHL game and will be in the highlight reels. Playing well and stopping his team’s power forward from scoring is a massive high that does way more than his preferred team winning or losing.

ascagnel_ 4y ago
> These guys aren’t usually that good (by NHL standards) and you’ve probably lost the game anyway. Interestingly, EBUGs have a pretty good record -- teams using an EBUG have won 3 of 4 games they've been used in. I think #3 factors into it: the players know that a "normal" (to be clear: while EBUGs aren't NHL caliber, they're not scrubs or beer leaguers, either) guy has gotten the night of a lifetime, and they'll (based on a subjective eye test) play more tightly in their own end.
- dmurray 4y ago
  > Interestingly, EBUGs have a pretty good record -- teams using an EBUG have won 3 of 4 games This is mostly coincidental: the goalies only appeared in the dying minutes or seconds of games their teams were already leading.
  - ascagnel_ 4y ago
    My point is more that, given the wide skill gap between an NHL-caliber player and a EBUG, there's a reasonable chance that the EBUG would "blow" the lead (a hockey goaltender is one of the most consequential positions in sports, probably second to a gridiron football quarterback). Of the four EBUG appearances, three were no-decision games (the lead didn't change after the EBUG came in) and one win (a come-from-behind victory after the EBUG came in).
- Delk 4y ago

OJFord 4y ago

I am in the UK so have as little right to talk about it really, though I did play in university. Basically this is so rare, it's in the name 'emergency backup', teams take a backup (sometimes third even) to away games; they have to both be injured probably in the same game (because if beforehand they'd roster someone else, call them up from an associated junior team say) for this to happen. And the fan/local has never trained with the team. They're nowhere near NHL level. They're basically 'traffic in front of the net' to whichever team, so it really doesn't make a difference, I don't expect. (And psychologically for the fan/local, they probably want to give it their all in their moment in the limelight? Why throw your one night in the NHL just because the wrong team got so unlikely injured?)

Delk 4y ago

That's not really a choice for the visiting team to make. A team can only have two goalies dressed for a game. The emergency backup goalie rule (which is unique to the NHL, AFAIK) is that the home team has to have an emergency goalie booked who's available as a stand-in for either team should both of the team's dressed goalies get injured during the game. Either team would only realistically take that option if they have no other choice. It's a relatively rare occurrence, and I imagine that anybody who ends up playing as an emergency backup would make an honest effort out of sportsmanship, and also because it's an unique opportunity and experience, even if it's for the visiting team. The emergency backup goalie is essentially the ultimate underdog and ends up being the fan favourite for the game. Sometimes the home crowd has started to cheer for him even though he was playing for the visiting team. I don't know what would be going through the emergency goalie's head if they had to step in for a really high-stakes game, though. I don't think that has happened so far.

rectang 4y ago
The "Zamboni Goalie" David Ayers, provided by the Toronto Maple Leafs when both goalies for the visiting Carolina Hurricanes went down, notched a win for the visitors.
- aeroplanetext 4y ago
  I suppose that, given the backup goalie is local, even if you lose, you win. Cheer on the hometown hero!
zoomablemind 4y ago
> ...The emergency backup goalie is essentially the ultimate underdog and ends up being the fan favourite for the game. I always thought that EBUG is an excellent PR device. It just feels to be so much "For the love of the game", something that fans on each side can relate. Win or lose is situative, but the EBUG effect after such games is always humanising. So the lucky activated EBUGs are in the goal to simply play hockey, they are ultimately NHL ambassadors.
- 4y ago