2 ms·

You pair program under time pressure similar to interview conditions? Really? I find that hard to believe. As for giving talks that way, I would not say that

You pair program under time pressure similar to interview conditions? Really? I find that hard to believe. As for giving talks that way, I would not say that qualifies as a high stakes environment. Your likely worst case scenario is that either your code or some bit of technology involved doesn't work right, so you laugh it off and explain what was supposed to happen.

kragen 4y ago
When I'm working on a product I'm under time pressure: we need to get this feature done so we can move on to the next, or we need to fix this bug — possibly the site is down, or the customer's system is compromised, until we get it done. In an interview there's a sort of "pressure" but it's like the pressure of playing a video game or taking a math test or lifting weights: I'm working hard to do my best, but nothing really depends on it. It's just a difficult challenge I'm completing, the only purpose being to see (and, well, show) how well I can complete it. The worst case scenario in a talk is that I say something stupid and get really dogmatic and defensive about it, leading the hundreds of people watching the talk to conclude that I'm an ignorant jerk, which, well, I can be, but I'd rather they didn't overestimate the frequency of that! I could lose face. The worst case scenario in an interview is that the person interviewing me says something stupid and gets really dogmatic and defensive about it, and then they and their company lose face. Oh, and they could decide not to offer me the job. But that's never been much of a problem, and it's certainly no big deal — if you're only interviewing for jobs you're almost sure to be offered, you should probably interview for more advanced positions. Not being offered a job is far from "losing out on a big opportunity", as you said in your other comment. A job gives you money enough to live on, but if you're a programmer jobs that pay a living wage are plentiful. (But less plentiful if people go to your talks and decide you're a nincompoop or a scumbag.)
- actually_a_dog 4y ago
  You're either missing or conveniently ignoring the fact that almost all deadlines are artificial, and the only thing that happens when they get missed is that someone's quarterly plan doesn't match up to reality. I had a whole bit about that written up in my editor that I decided not to include, but, needless to say, reality disagrees with you here. Software projects are notoriously late, and people generally don't get fired as a result. Your other scenarios of "site down" or "customer system compromised" aren't even examples of time pressure, so I have no idea what you were even getting at. Oh, and if you look like a dogmatic jerk in front of an audience, there's nobody in the back row waiting to make a mark on your permanent record as a result, just so you know. But, back, now to interviews. I've been in I don't know how many interviews (hundreds, easily, if we count both the ones where I was the interviewer and those where I was the candidate), and I can tell you for a fact that time pressure, performance anxiety, and every single other thing I've mentioned impacts people's interview performance, and does so in such a way that it wouldn't be relevant on the job. I could even cite research to that effect if you like. For whatever reason, you're now so out of touch that it's absurd. I had a whole point by point refutation of every single thing you wrote here, because for the average individual, it's totally wrong, and it would cause them harm if they tried to incorporate what you wrote into their world view. Maybe you truly don't feel the same type of anxiety in technical interviewers that most people do. Fine. The fact that you're (a robot, a Zen master, financially secure enough that having a job doesn't matter, a 99th percentile 10x programmer who crushes technical interviews with both hands behind your back and using the whiteboard marker in your teeth, or whatever it is that makes you feel this way makes you not qualified to give advice on the matter to typical, average people. TL;DR: No. Just no. I can tell you're not going to convince me of anything, and I suspect I can't convince you of anything, either, but my conscience just won't let me let this go unanswered.
  - kragen 4y ago
    Since you've interviewed candidates for programming jobs you know that being 99th percentile among them is pretty easy. Just being a programmer is enough. It's easy to exceed 10× zero. It's true that many people get anxious about programming job interviews. Except in rare cases, it isn't really rational. But people get even more anxious about giving public talks, which, as you point out, often isn't rational either. It's true that people sometimes create artificial time-pressure deadlines. Those people are manipulative schmucks who deserve no quarter. In reality, time to market is a huge competitive advantage, and when a business's site is down it generally loses money every minute; getting it back up allows the business to start making money again. Similar, but worse, when customer systems are broken because your software broke them. When you're giving a talk at a conference, you're forming part of a community. You have a reputation in that community. That reputation can be good or bad. Having a bad reputation hurts you in myriad ways, even without anyone in the back row making a mark on your permanent record. You're confusing your limited experience of reality with reality itself, and consequently you come off as dogmatic and defensive, which could limit your learning. I think everyone would benefit from incorporating more aspects of reality into their worldview.

kragen 4y ago

When I'm working on a product I'm under time pressure: we need to get this feature done so we can move on to the next, or we need to fix this bug — possibly the site is down, or the customer's system is compromised, until we get it done. In an interview there's a sort of "pressure" but it's like the pressure of playing a video game or taking a math test or lifting weights: I'm working hard to do my best, but nothing really depends on it. It's just a difficult challenge I'm completing, the only purpose being to see (and, well, show) how well I can complete it. The worst case scenario in a talk is that I say something stupid and get really dogmatic and defensive about it, leading the hundreds of people watching the talk to conclude that I'm an ignorant jerk, which, well, I can be, but I'd rather they didn't overestimate the frequency of that! I could lose face. The worst case scenario in an interview is that the person interviewing me says something stupid and gets really dogmatic and defensive about it, and then they and their company lose face. Oh, and they could decide not to offer me the job. But that's never been much of a problem, and it's certainly no big deal — if you're only interviewing for jobs you're almost sure to be offered, you should probably interview for more advanced positions. Not being offered a job is far from "losing out on a big opportunity", as you said in your other comment. A job gives you money enough to live on, but if you're a programmer jobs that pay a living wage are plentiful. (But less plentiful if people go to your talks and decide you're a nincompoop or a scumbag.)

actually_a_dog 4y ago
You're either missing or conveniently ignoring the fact that almost all deadlines are artificial, and the only thing that happens when they get missed is that someone's quarterly plan doesn't match up to reality. I had a whole bit about that written up in my editor that I decided not to include, but, needless to say, reality disagrees with you here. Software projects are notoriously late, and people generally don't get fired as a result. Your other scenarios of "site down" or "customer system compromised" aren't even examples of time pressure, so I have no idea what you were even getting at. Oh, and if you look like a dogmatic jerk in front of an audience, there's nobody in the back row waiting to make a mark on your permanent record as a result, just so you know. But, back, now to interviews. I've been in I don't know how many interviews (hundreds, easily, if we count both the ones where I was the interviewer and those where I was the candidate), and I can tell you for a fact that time pressure, performance anxiety, and every single other thing I've mentioned impacts people's interview performance, and does so in such a way that it wouldn't be relevant on the job. I could even cite research to that effect if you like. For whatever reason, you're now so out of touch that it's absurd. I had a whole point by point refutation of every single thing you wrote here, because for the average individual, it's totally wrong, and it would cause them harm if they tried to incorporate what you wrote into their world view. Maybe you truly don't feel the same type of anxiety in technical interviewers that most people do. Fine. The fact that you're (a robot, a Zen master, financially secure enough that having a job doesn't matter, a 99th percentile 10x programmer who crushes technical interviews with both hands behind your back and using the whiteboard marker in your teeth, or whatever it is that makes you feel this way makes you not qualified to give advice on the matter to typical, average people. TL;DR: No. Just no. I can tell you're not going to convince me of anything, and I suspect I can't convince you of anything, either, but my conscience just won't let me let this go unanswered.
- kragen 4y ago
  Since you've interviewed candidates for programming jobs you know that being 99th percentile among them is pretty easy. Just being a programmer is enough. It's easy to exceed 10× zero. It's true that many people get anxious about programming job interviews. Except in rare cases, it isn't really rational. But people get even more anxious about giving public talks, which, as you point out, often isn't rational either. It's true that people sometimes create artificial time-pressure deadlines. Those people are manipulative schmucks who deserve no quarter. In reality, time to market is a huge competitive advantage, and when a business's site is down it generally loses money every minute; getting it back up allows the business to start making money again. Similar, but worse, when customer systems are broken because your software broke them. When you're giving a talk at a conference, you're forming part of a community. You have a reputation in that community. That reputation can be good or bad. Having a bad reputation hurts you in myriad ways, even without anyone in the back row making a mark on your permanent record. You're confusing your limited experience of reality with reality itself, and consequently you come off as dogmatic and defensive, which could limit your learning. I think everyone would benefit from incorporating more aspects of reality into their worldview.