6 ms·

I don't want to work with anyone who treats service workers like garbage, no matter what mood they are in. I have never in my life, no matter how bad or good of

I don't want to work with anyone who treats service workers like garbage, no matter what mood they are in. I have never in my life, no matter how bad or good of a day I am having, taken my frustrations out on a service worker for whatever internal/external stressors are happening to me.

genewitch 5y ago
I find this extremely hard to believe. I, too, try very hard to not get upset at "service workers", but at a certain point, if someone has a bad attitude with me i'll eventually give it right back. This has only happened a few times, off the top of my head: support at ISPs a couple of times, creditors who were harassing me without reason, and one time extremely rude and racist people at a California School transportation office. Sure, i probably could hang up, turn the other cheek, whatever. And i'm sure my responses/actions made them no nevermind. You might be as stoic and nonplussed as you claim, but we're all the heroes of our own stories, or something.
- bee_rider 5y ago
  This would make sense as an objection if the taxi driver had specifically been asked to be a dick, to test the candidates. I'd assume they have some idea that the taxi driver is a fairly reasonable person (and apparently they know him well enough to trust his judgement).
  - alanh 5y ago
    To be fair, the comment you were replying to was strictly a response to someone's personal claim, not about the taxi driver scenario in particular
  - genewitch 5y ago
    English is a tricky language, and in my reading of GP i was incredulous at the word "never", especially since service workers can be in bad moods or stressed and that becomes, to you (or me, or GP), external stressors. Maybe i'm a bad person?
    - bee_rider 5y ago
      Oh, I think you are right there. I can't think of any times I've been rude to a worker off the top of my head, but I'm sure if we went over my life with a thin tooth comb we could find some instances. So it should be unusual that for an otherwise friendly candidate, this just happens to be the day when they have an unfortunate interaction.
- jjulius 5y ago
  >... if someone has a bad attitude with me... It seems pretty obvious to me that the premise is supposed to be that the driver is courteous and professional, and they just see if the person treats the driver decently, or like trash because they feel they're above them.
- alanh 5y ago
  Quick comment to help explain why this is getting some downvotes (in my best guess): The part where you say you try to treat service workers with respect but have your limits is fine / personal experience / probably broadly relatable, but the parts that are basically calling BS on someone for claiming they never lose their cool in such situations is… presumptuous and personal. Some people really have the ability to keep their cool (for one reason or another, trained or personality-driven). Personally, I’m with you, but, I think, making progress on becoming more like the person you’ve replied to.
- WesleyJohnson 5y ago
  I'll echo the parent commenter's anecdotes. I'm 43, so I've undoubtedly been exposed to many rude service workers in my days. Honestly, though, I can't remember a single incident. Perhaps that is a clue to my ability to respond kindly, or decently at the very least, and then move on. I'm not trying to "kill them with kindness", I just deliberately avoid confrontation and try to treat people like I'd want to be treated. Golden rule and all that. Everyone has bad days, and some people are just plain assholes; that doesn't mean you have to treat them poorly, whether provoked, deserving, or otherwise.
- johnnyanmac 5y ago
  >You might be as stoic and nonplussed as you claim, but we're all the heroes of our own stories, or something. I prefer the terms lazy and non-confrontational, myself. But no, my first response to undue difficulty isn't to lash out. Better to save my energy and time and just hang up, walk away, etc. I'm the above in part because: I'm certainly no hero and don't expect my words to magically fix the cable industry or have some insularly bigoted person see the light of day. There are others who spend full time+ attempting to do such feats with varying success. Some may find that lack of resistance as tacit approval of the current norms, and they may be right on a subconscious level. But I simply don't have the energy or will to care 99.9% of time with so many other things demanding my attention. I don't see myself as some paragon of patience turning the other cheek, I just say to myself "I don't have time to deal with this" and run away (metaphorically speaking. Mostly)
skissane 5y ago
I worry that this might unintentionally discriminate against culturally diverse candidates. Standards of politeness can vary between cultures (and even subcultures), and a person might behave in a way which is perceived as polite in their (sub)culture but as impolite in the culture of the service worker; an "asshole" could turn out to just be a cultural misunderstanding. Particularly if the candidate is from a minority or immigrant background (especially recent immigrant). Similarly, I'd worry that this might unintentionally discriminate against neurodiverse candidates, who sometimes might act in ways which are perceived as impolite by others without realising they are doing so. Often, if you simply analyse the interaction and give them a calm rational explanation of how it went wrong, many of them are happy to adjust their behaviour in response, and will improve over time. But, instead, some just want to label other people as "assholes" over misunderstandings. And a significant percentage of service workers may have weaker skills at "analyse the situation and try to infer the psychological processes involved" than others with greater education do, which may make them more likely to jump to the "just an asshole" explanation and less likely to perceive other possible explanations.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 5y ago
  I think this is a fair and nuanced comment. However, you seem to be stating (correct me if I'm wrong) that there are really two categories of situations here - situation A, where someone is an Asshole with a capital A, and situation B where you have a neurodiverse or immigrant candidate that is misinterpreting the situation and should not be dismissed based on their behavior. I can easily agree that both situations are possible and probably happen in the real world enough to be worth talking about. However, based on my (admittedly anecdotal, but extensive) experience situation A is probably something like 95% of the time and situation B is probably something like 5% of the time. How do we tell when B is happening and can you really fault people for assuming A is happening when that is the vast, vast, majority of occurrences? Is there an easy and objective way to tell the difference? In a world where wrong hires are expensive, can you fault people for assuming A? Is there a better way to ensure that B candidates are adequately evaluated?
  - skissane 5y ago
badkitty 5y ago
That's the really nasty thing about retail: the angrier and more abusive you are, you'll likely get your way. And much of the time, "your way" is being made whole with the situation. Ive worked retail for quite some time but broke out into IT. But the abuse is expected in retail. Managers are paid minimally more to deal with it - and that's to prevent customer complaints to corporate. Pretty much everyone, at some time, has flailed out at restaurant or retail staff. It's terrible, but part of the expectations.
- Taniwha 5y ago
  depends on where you live - growing up in New Zealand we don't have a tipping culture, servers will get to you, in your turn, try and demand service and you're cutting against a cultural grain, perceived to be trying to claim you're better, more important, than the other customers, or the server. I read somewhere that our "obnoxious American tourist" stereotype came from some time in the 60s when rich tourists started flying across the Pacific, showed up and and started demanding service like they did back at home
  - DFHippie 5y ago
    Some time ago I spent a lot of time in youth hostels. A pattern I noticed was that people from all different cultures were polite and considerate until the number of people in the immediate group whom they considered allies in some way crossed some threshold at which point they became jerks, disregarding rules and politeness and generally acting as though they were the only real people there. I was in Europe, so most of the large groups were also European, but I at least saw German, Spanish, and French groups behaving this way. I met many Australians, but they were always traveling singly or in pairs and always stayed polite as far as I could see. I also have a vivid memory of Americans on a train in southern Germany voicing their opinions loudly and rudely about homes they saw passing by outside the train windows. It was just three or four Americans, but the arrangement of people on the train gave them a local majority. I suspect it is this dynamic more than tipping culture that gave rise to the stereotype of the ugly American. In small numbers people in foreign lands try to stay quiet and unseen. In larger numbers they feel safe and, maybe because they feel free from consequence or maybe as a stress reaction, they become worse than their normal selves. It isn't just Americans. But for a period in the last century Americans were the folks with sufficient money to show up in other people's countries in tour groups. Also, the people who create the stereotype are the ones who are noticed. If there are lots of foreigners blending in and a group of them who don't, it's the ones who don't who create the reputation for the rest.

genewitch 5y ago

I find this extremely hard to believe. I, too, try very hard to not get upset at "service workers", but at a certain point, if someone has a bad attitude with me i'll eventually give it right back. This has only happened a few times, off the top of my head: support at ISPs a couple of times, creditors who were harassing me without reason, and one time extremely rude and racist people at a California School transportation office. Sure, i probably could hang up, turn the other cheek, whatever. And i'm sure my responses/actions made them no nevermind. You might be as stoic and nonplussed as you claim, but we're all the heroes of our own stories, or something.

bee_rider 5y ago
This would make sense as an objection if the taxi driver had specifically been asked to be a dick, to test the candidates. I'd assume they have some idea that the taxi driver is a fairly reasonable person (and apparently they know him well enough to trust his judgement).
- alanh 5y ago
  To be fair, the comment you were replying to was strictly a response to someone's personal claim, not about the taxi driver scenario in particular
- genewitch 5y ago
  English is a tricky language, and in my reading of GP i was incredulous at the word "never", especially since service workers can be in bad moods or stressed and that becomes, to you (or me, or GP), external stressors. Maybe i'm a bad person?
  - bee_rider 5y ago
    Oh, I think you are right there. I can't think of any times I've been rude to a worker off the top of my head, but I'm sure if we went over my life with a thin tooth comb we could find some instances. So it should be unusual that for an otherwise friendly candidate, this just happens to be the day when they have an unfortunate interaction.
jjulius 5y ago
>... if someone has a bad attitude with me... It seems pretty obvious to me that the premise is supposed to be that the driver is courteous and professional, and they just see if the person treats the driver decently, or like trash because they feel they're above them.
alanh 5y ago
Quick comment to help explain why this is getting some downvotes (in my best guess): The part where you say you try to treat service workers with respect but have your limits is fine / personal experience / probably broadly relatable, but the parts that are basically calling BS on someone for claiming they never lose their cool in such situations is… presumptuous and personal. Some people really have the ability to keep their cool (for one reason or another, trained or personality-driven). Personally, I’m with you, but, I think, making progress on becoming more like the person you’ve replied to.
WesleyJohnson 5y ago
I'll echo the parent commenter's anecdotes. I'm 43, so I've undoubtedly been exposed to many rude service workers in my days. Honestly, though, I can't remember a single incident. Perhaps that is a clue to my ability to respond kindly, or decently at the very least, and then move on. I'm not trying to "kill them with kindness", I just deliberately avoid confrontation and try to treat people like I'd want to be treated. Golden rule and all that. Everyone has bad days, and some people are just plain assholes; that doesn't mean you have to treat them poorly, whether provoked, deserving, or otherwise.
johnnyanmac 5y ago
>You might be as stoic and nonplussed as you claim, but we're all the heroes of our own stories, or something. I prefer the terms lazy and non-confrontational, myself. But no, my first response to undue difficulty isn't to lash out. Better to save my energy and time and just hang up, walk away, etc. I'm the above in part because: I'm certainly no hero and don't expect my words to magically fix the cable industry or have some insularly bigoted person see the light of day. There are others who spend full time+ attempting to do such feats with varying success. Some may find that lack of resistance as tacit approval of the current norms, and they may be right on a subconscious level. But I simply don't have the energy or will to care 99.9% of time with so many other things demanding my attention. I don't see myself as some paragon of patience turning the other cheek, I just say to myself "I don't have time to deal with this" and run away (metaphorically speaking. Mostly)

skissane 5y ago

I worry that this might unintentionally discriminate against culturally diverse candidates. Standards of politeness can vary between cultures (and even subcultures), and a person might behave in a way which is perceived as polite in their (sub)culture but as impolite in the culture of the service worker; an "asshole" could turn out to just be a cultural misunderstanding. Particularly if the candidate is from a minority or immigrant background (especially recent immigrant). Similarly, I'd worry that this might unintentionally discriminate against neurodiverse candidates, who sometimes might act in ways which are perceived as impolite by others without realising they are doing so. Often, if you simply analyse the interaction and give them a calm rational explanation of how it went wrong, many of them are happy to adjust their behaviour in response, and will improve over time. But, instead, some just want to label other people as "assholes" over misunderstandings. And a significant percentage of service workers may have weaker skills at "analyse the situation and try to infer the psychological processes involved" than others with greater education do, which may make them more likely to jump to the "just an asshole" explanation and less likely to perceive other possible explanations.

SOLAR_FIELDS 5y ago
I think this is a fair and nuanced comment. However, you seem to be stating (correct me if I'm wrong) that there are really two categories of situations here - situation A, where someone is an Asshole with a capital A, and situation B where you have a neurodiverse or immigrant candidate that is misinterpreting the situation and should not be dismissed based on their behavior. I can easily agree that both situations are possible and probably happen in the real world enough to be worth talking about. However, based on my (admittedly anecdotal, but extensive) experience situation A is probably something like 95% of the time and situation B is probably something like 5% of the time. How do we tell when B is happening and can you really fault people for assuming A is happening when that is the vast, vast, majority of occurrences? Is there an easy and objective way to tell the difference? In a world where wrong hires are expensive, can you fault people for assuming A? Is there a better way to ensure that B candidates are adequately evaluated?
- skissane 5y ago

badkitty 5y ago

That's the really nasty thing about retail: the angrier and more abusive you are, you'll likely get your way. And much of the time, "your way" is being made whole with the situation. Ive worked retail for quite some time but broke out into IT. But the abuse is expected in retail. Managers are paid minimally more to deal with it - and that's to prevent customer complaints to corporate. Pretty much everyone, at some time, has flailed out at restaurant or retail staff. It's terrible, but part of the expectations.

Taniwha 5y ago
depends on where you live - growing up in New Zealand we don't have a tipping culture, servers will get to you, in your turn, try and demand service and you're cutting against a cultural grain, perceived to be trying to claim you're better, more important, than the other customers, or the server. I read somewhere that our "obnoxious American tourist" stereotype came from some time in the 60s when rich tourists started flying across the Pacific, showed up and and started demanding service like they did back at home
- DFHippie 5y ago
  Some time ago I spent a lot of time in youth hostels. A pattern I noticed was that people from all different cultures were polite and considerate until the number of people in the immediate group whom they considered allies in some way crossed some threshold at which point they became jerks, disregarding rules and politeness and generally acting as though they were the only real people there. I was in Europe, so most of the large groups were also European, but I at least saw German, Spanish, and French groups behaving this way. I met many Australians, but they were always traveling singly or in pairs and always stayed polite as far as I could see. I also have a vivid memory of Americans on a train in southern Germany voicing their opinions loudly and rudely about homes they saw passing by outside the train windows. It was just three or four Americans, but the arrangement of people on the train gave them a local majority. I suspect it is this dynamic more than tipping culture that gave rise to the stereotype of the ugly American. In small numbers people in foreign lands try to stay quiet and unseen. In larger numbers they feel safe and, maybe because they feel free from consequence or maybe as a stress reaction, they become worse than their normal selves. It isn't just Americans. But for a period in the last century Americans were the folks with sufficient money to show up in other people's countries in tour groups. Also, the people who create the stereotype are the ones who are noticed. If there are lots of foreigners blending in and a group of them who don't, it's the ones who don't who create the reputation for the rest.