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> Raising minimum wage while leaving other wages untouched accomplishes that. Not sure I see how that is going to get a lot of support. A number of years ago w

> Raising minimum wage while leaving other wages untouched accomplishes that. Not sure I see how that is going to get a lot of support. A number of years ago when the talk was $15/hr, a friend of mine was livid whenever talking about it. She just finished a nursing degree (while working full time) and was starting her first job as an RN around $15/hr. And now the support staff, who didnt need more than a HS education was going to make as much as, or more than, her and not have the student loan burden on top of it? Her and I disagree on most social issues, but I can see how that would not be popular enough to be adapted. It had nothing to do with wanting to keep others poor and everything to do with -feeling- like everything she worked so hard for (to improve her own situation) meant nothing. Of course, over the years as nursing pay increased so did the support staff or maybe the other way around. I dont presume to know the causing factors. I know that my friend isnt upset that the support staff is paid a living wage now, but I also know her pay ladder (and nursing in general) increased as well.

virgildotcodes 4y ago
I mean, whether the goal is to keep other people down or just to retain the feeling of having worked hard to climb in the social hierarchy, the end result is the same, no? I think it's kind of sad that this is such a common response, whether it be in this case or in the case of people who paid for college being upset that college may become free for the next generation. Definitely one of humanity's flaws, we shouldn't so eagerly defend that others must suffer for us to feel exceptional, but I take your point that it's a part of our psychology nonetheless and probably a factor in why real change on reducing the divide between the rich and the poor is so rare to see.
- ceeplusplus 4y ago
  > being upset that college may become free for the next generation Some of us are less upset that it might become free and more upset that our tax dollars are being used to fund useless degrees for people who looked down on STEM their whole lives. I'm happy to support free STEM degrees from quality schools.
- random-human 4y ago
  Sure, if we want to philosophize about it, and I agree with it - but that's not going to help people get $25/hr. It needs a practical solution, forcing it when so many people will feel slighted wont help. What use would the hospital be if all the support staff got $25/hr and the medical staff walked out because the support staff is getting paid more than they are, but without the very real and legal responsibilities the medical staff have? This compounds on the other meta aspects of having worked hard to get there, student loans, etc. If I paid customer service agents more than the programmers working on a product, I soon would have a very stale product with really good customer support. And soon after, no product at all. Its not that one side wants the other to suffer or stay poor/oppressed so they can feel exceptional. They dont want to feel their entire struggle and outsized contribution was for nothing. The other people dont factor in at all - they are trying to feed their family first (humans are gonna human). Why bother being a nurse and doing all that night school if they could just be support staff and get paid the same without the responsibility + extra loans? We are not even talking about the real rich vs poor here, so even thou the idea is to close the rich/poor gap - the solution of not raising adjacent workers pay to get it done, does nothing to solve it and only introduces obstacles to the real goal. I think discussions like minimum wage end up talking past each other (as happened with my friend and I over many talks). It is desperate for a divergent solution. I dont have one that doesnt involve completely rebuilding every social/societal construct from it's foundation. Basically pointless and not something thats going to happen. But I am sure someone smarter than me can find a 3rd way without adding bugs/negative effects to other branches

virgildotcodes 4y ago

I mean, whether the goal is to keep other people down or just to retain the feeling of having worked hard to climb in the social hierarchy, the end result is the same, no? I think it's kind of sad that this is such a common response, whether it be in this case or in the case of people who paid for college being upset that college may become free for the next generation. Definitely one of humanity's flaws, we shouldn't so eagerly defend that others must suffer for us to feel exceptional, but I take your point that it's a part of our psychology nonetheless and probably a factor in why real change on reducing the divide between the rich and the poor is so rare to see.

ceeplusplus 4y ago
> being upset that college may become free for the next generation Some of us are less upset that it might become free and more upset that our tax dollars are being used to fund useless degrees for people who looked down on STEM their whole lives. I'm happy to support free STEM degrees from quality schools.
random-human 4y ago
Sure, if we want to philosophize about it, and I agree with it - but that's not going to help people get $25/hr. It needs a practical solution, forcing it when so many people will feel slighted wont help. What use would the hospital be if all the support staff got $25/hr and the medical staff walked out because the support staff is getting paid more than they are, but without the very real and legal responsibilities the medical staff have? This compounds on the other meta aspects of having worked hard to get there, student loans, etc. If I paid customer service agents more than the programmers working on a product, I soon would have a very stale product with really good customer support. And soon after, no product at all. Its not that one side wants the other to suffer or stay poor/oppressed so they can feel exceptional. They dont want to feel their entire struggle and outsized contribution was for nothing. The other people dont factor in at all - they are trying to feed their family first (humans are gonna human). Why bother being a nurse and doing all that night school if they could just be support staff and get paid the same without the responsibility + extra loans? We are not even talking about the real rich vs poor here, so even thou the idea is to close the rich/poor gap - the solution of not raising adjacent workers pay to get it done, does nothing to solve it and only introduces obstacles to the real goal. I think discussions like minimum wage end up talking past each other (as happened with my friend and I over many talks). It is desperate for a divergent solution. I dont have one that doesnt involve completely rebuilding every social/societal construct from it's foundation. Basically pointless and not something thats going to happen. But I am sure someone smarter than me can find a 3rd way without adding bugs/negative effects to other branches