7 ms·

It might be a popular opinion because I make more than this and have increased my earnings over the years from $2.90 per hour to what I earn today, BUT why does

It might be a popular opinion because I make more than this and have increased my earnings over the years from $2.90 per hour to what I earn today, BUT why does anyone think the MINIMUM wage should be this high? DO the same people expect to give me a similar wage increase to offset what will inevitably bring on higher costs and probable inflation? I mean assuming minimum wage were $10 and we raise it to $25 arbitrarily, that's a 150% increase. At the BOTTOM. Now everyone who wasn't earning minimum wage has just had their earning power slashed. What about the employees that worked hard in school or through a series of jobs to get up to $25 per hour? Now they are making "minimum" wage at a potentially high-experience-necessary job? Does this mean that my and other people immediately and automatically deserve a 150% salary increase to keep the earning-power relative? So someone who was earning $100,000 now automatically deserves $250,000? What about costs of goods and services? Do we automatically increase these by 150% too? Gas that is $4 now $10? Rents at $1000, now $2,500? How does that help the minimum wage earners? Sure they have a higher wage, but now costs (ie inflation) has just skyrocketed keeping them and their buying power exactly where it was previously. And if EVERYONE'S wages weren't increased those not on minimum wage (assuming their wages didn't get the 150% bump) just lost out bigly. I am ALL FOR fair wages for work. But resetting and arbitrarily raising the minimum wage doesn't work for a sustainable long term solution. Instead, why not pressure companies to minimize profits thereby reducing costs so lower wage earners can afford the basics and hopefully some extra comforts. Why not provide more financial education so lower income workers don't get caught in credit card/debt and paycheck loan traps that keep them poor. Let's put more tax dollars to work in low income neighborhoods and areas. I feel there are so many other ways to lift people out of poverty traps, but arbitrarily raising the minimum wage only looks good on a piece of paper/paycheck. In the long run it just keeps people in the same position and hurts those higher up the ladder. And yes I know this last part sounds elitest, but that is not my intent. I am only saying that this hurts EVERYONE'S buying power in the long run.

fallingfrog 4y ago
The data shows that you are not correct- Seattle has a 17$ per hour minimum wage and the sky did not fall. Things improved, mostly for the people at the very bottom. Business owners made a lot of threats but ultimately they did not move out of the city. https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/7/13/20690266/seattle-minimum-wage-15-dollars https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/7/13/20690266/seattle...
- fallingfrog 4y ago
  There is also a psychological phenomenon at play here: anytime one group of people is above another in some hierarchy, they must tell themselves a story to justify their position. It usually goes: they deserve to be under us, because they are lazy/violent/oversexed etc. But we also must be protected from them, as we are so outnumbered. This is why you get perplexing attitudes that latinos are too lazy to work but also taking our jobs, or that white people are helpless victims but also simultaneously the master race. Of course, change the actors and story remains the same- no matter who is on top and who is on bottom. Thus the attitude of the privileged towards the commoners is one of contempt, and the attitude of the commoners is one of resentment and resistance. The story repeats in every society with a lot of inequality. Your own comment, for example, drips with contempt. Edit: I don’t know you, so I do take you at your word. I’m glad you don’t have contempt for anyone. That 4.25 however is actually higher than the federal minimum wage today, adjusted for inflation. Also, if you’re ever watching news stories about young people, watch for the fear and contempt: the story with them is that they are crybabies who won’t leave their safe spaces (contempt, why they deserve to suffer) but also antifa super soldiers seeking to take over the country (fear, why we must police them). In actuality young people today are raising children in the middle of historic upheaval, plagues, unaffordable housing and stupidly expensive education. But yet they soldier on. They’re survivors.
  - NiagaraThistle 4y ago
    And I want to be perfectly clear: I do not in any way have the thought that anyone making minimum wage is "lazy/violent/oversexed etc". I don't think we need to "be protected from" minimum wage earners. As I mentioned in my original post, even when minimum wage was $4.25, I earned substantially less at my first job. Even as minimum wage increased, I earned close to it for a long time. My family lived check to check at best when I grew up. My bone of contention is with the lawmakers changing the min wage and not focusing on the greed of politicians and corporations: give taxes back to the poor communities/earners; reduce profits to allow for lower costs so low wage earners can afford to get themselves or their children out of poverty. I did not mean to imply the "blame" lies with the workers. I know full well, many people earning minimum wage are already doing the best they can, even if these types of jobs are not meant to raise families on or be sole wage suppliers, sometimes that is the only option.
virgildotcodes 4y ago
The whole point of raising the minimum wage is to erode the gap between the poor and the rest of society. Raising minimum wage while leaving other wages untouched accomplishes that. I don’t think that when considering the lives of the poor and the middle class/wealthy, that we should prioritize the needs of the middle class and wealthy. It seems clear that the needs of the poor are much greater, the suffering much more intense, and that some sacrifices by the rest of society to address those needs and reduce that suffering are the right thing to do. Now whether it’s possible to raise minimum wage without all other wages and inflation rising in response is a different question. I do wonder what the effect of a minimum wage that tracked inflation would be?
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  >The whole point of raising the minimum wage is to erode the gap between the poor and the rest of society. If that was the goal, then increasing taxes on richer people and giving cash to poorer people would be what happens. Aka, universal basic income. The actual goal is for a politician to be able to say they are helping poorer people, while minimizing the need for tax increases, which also probably aligns with many voters’ goals too (since many voters like to think they are not part of the poor who would be helped, but rather part of the rich who would have to make a sacrifice). The same situation plays out for higher education (loans instead of simply paying for the schooling) and fossil fuel and plastics pollution (doing everything except increasing taxes fossil fuels).
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - virgildotcodes 4y ago
    I mean, I do think that is the genuine goal for most proponents of raising the minimum wage. As far as I know, as a general trend, politicians pushing to raise the minimum wage tend to also push for raising taxes on the wealthy and greater investment in social programs, especially those targeting the poor. On the flip side, politicians I'm aware of that push back against minimum wage increases tend to also be against any tax hikes on the wealthy, and as a bonus they generally work to erode funding for social safety nets. I'm not aware of many politicians being for raising minimum wage but against increasing taxes on the rich, or at least that not being just a minority of those involved in the debate. Either way my take on it is that we should just look to what seems to work empirically. For my money that's the Nordic countries, which have an effective (due to very strong unions) high minimum wage, along with high taxes and strong investment in social programs. That said, maybe you're right and UBI accomplishes the majority of what we're going for more directly. I definitely think it will be a necessity soon either way.

fallingfrog 4y ago

The data shows that you are not correct- Seattle has a 17$ per hour minimum wage and the sky did not fall. Things improved, mostly for the people at the very bottom. Business owners made a lot of threats but ultimately they did not move out of the city. https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/7/13/20690266/seattle-minimum-wage-15-dollars https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/7/13/20690266/seattle...

fallingfrog 4y ago
There is also a psychological phenomenon at play here: anytime one group of people is above another in some hierarchy, they must tell themselves a story to justify their position. It usually goes: they deserve to be under us, because they are lazy/violent/oversexed etc. But we also must be protected from them, as we are so outnumbered. This is why you get perplexing attitudes that latinos are too lazy to work but also taking our jobs, or that white people are helpless victims but also simultaneously the master race. Of course, change the actors and story remains the same- no matter who is on top and who is on bottom. Thus the attitude of the privileged towards the commoners is one of contempt, and the attitude of the commoners is one of resentment and resistance. The story repeats in every society with a lot of inequality. Your own comment, for example, drips with contempt. Edit: I don’t know you, so I do take you at your word. I’m glad you don’t have contempt for anyone. That 4.25 however is actually higher than the federal minimum wage today, adjusted for inflation. Also, if you’re ever watching news stories about young people, watch for the fear and contempt: the story with them is that they are crybabies who won’t leave their safe spaces (contempt, why they deserve to suffer) but also antifa super soldiers seeking to take over the country (fear, why we must police them). In actuality young people today are raising children in the middle of historic upheaval, plagues, unaffordable housing and stupidly expensive education. But yet they soldier on. They’re survivors.
- NiagaraThistle 4y ago
  And I want to be perfectly clear: I do not in any way have the thought that anyone making minimum wage is "lazy/violent/oversexed etc". I don't think we need to "be protected from" minimum wage earners. As I mentioned in my original post, even when minimum wage was $4.25, I earned substantially less at my first job. Even as minimum wage increased, I earned close to it for a long time. My family lived check to check at best when I grew up. My bone of contention is with the lawmakers changing the min wage and not focusing on the greed of politicians and corporations: give taxes back to the poor communities/earners; reduce profits to allow for lower costs so low wage earners can afford to get themselves or their children out of poverty. I did not mean to imply the "blame" lies with the workers. I know full well, many people earning minimum wage are already doing the best they can, even if these types of jobs are not meant to raise families on or be sole wage suppliers, sometimes that is the only option.

virgildotcodes 4y ago

The whole point of raising the minimum wage is to erode the gap between the poor and the rest of society. Raising minimum wage while leaving other wages untouched accomplishes that. I don’t think that when considering the lives of the poor and the middle class/wealthy, that we should prioritize the needs of the middle class and wealthy. It seems clear that the needs of the poor are much greater, the suffering much more intense, and that some sacrifices by the rest of society to address those needs and reduce that suffering are the right thing to do. Now whether it’s possible to raise minimum wage without all other wages and inflation rising in response is a different question. I do wonder what the effect of a minimum wage that tracked inflation would be?

lotsofpulp 4y ago
>The whole point of raising the minimum wage is to erode the gap between the poor and the rest of society. If that was the goal, then increasing taxes on richer people and giving cash to poorer people would be what happens. Aka, universal basic income. The actual goal is for a politician to be able to say they are helping poorer people, while minimizing the need for tax increases, which also probably aligns with many voters’ goals too (since many voters like to think they are not part of the poor who would be helped, but rather part of the rich who would have to make a sacrifice). The same situation plays out for higher education (loans instead of simply paying for the schooling) and fossil fuel and plastics pollution (doing everything except increasing taxes fossil fuels).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- virgildotcodes 4y ago
  I mean, I do think that is the genuine goal for most proponents of raising the minimum wage. As far as I know, as a general trend, politicians pushing to raise the minimum wage tend to also push for raising taxes on the wealthy and greater investment in social programs, especially those targeting the poor. On the flip side, politicians I'm aware of that push back against minimum wage increases tend to also be against any tax hikes on the wealthy, and as a bonus they generally work to erode funding for social safety nets. I'm not aware of many politicians being for raising minimum wage but against increasing taxes on the rich, or at least that not being just a minority of those involved in the debate. Either way my take on it is that we should just look to what seems to work empirically. For my money that's the Nordic countries, which have an effective (due to very strong unions) high minimum wage, along with high taxes and strong investment in social programs. That said, maybe you're right and UBI accomplishes the majority of what we're going for more directly. I definitely think it will be a necessity soon either way.