4 ms·

I am not without complaints over my government (United Kingdom) - but they did manage to built an online tax system, without suddenly deciding that private comp

by goldcd 4y ago

I am not without complaints over my government (United Kingdom) - but they did manage to built an online tax system, without suddenly deciding that private companies would enhance the experience. By all means fine the bejeesus out of Intuit - but do not think for one moment the actual problem wasn't that they managed to lobby their way into that position. If anybody is interested, I quite like the UK government website - https://www.gov.uk/ https://www.gov.uk/ It has the appearance that it was knocked up in notepad, but after using it, I have a modicum of respect for how it makes government usable.

jl6 4y ago
gov.uk is a breath of fresh air compared to the commercial swamp of the surface web. It’s a great example of design-is-how-it-works elevated above design-is-how-it-looks.
d4mi3n 4y ago
> It has the appearance that it was knocked up in notepad, but after using it, I have a modicum of respect for how it makes government usable. I'd wager that the looks have a lot to do with accessibility. Government sites are interesting in that to fill their purpose they're on the far end of the spectrum of website and system accessibility—in that they must be usable for: 1. People who don't have typical eyesight—colorblind, blind, vision with poor focus, issues distinguishing text without a sufficient level of contrast 2. People who don't use keyboards or mice to navigate—this could include folks using screen readers, voice assistants, or more exotic interface devices (think paraplegics using eye-tracking software or tongue switches). 3. People who are not neurotlypical and may struggle to use the website—think dyslexia, anxiety (info-dense walls of text can trigger panic attacks), or individuals who have trouble using computers or the internet. There's likely a lot more there than I'm personally aware of, but making even a basic service available and usable to a constituency can take a huge amount of effort. The UK gov website guidelines[1] touch on this and I applaud any government or organization that takes these things seriously. 1. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/accessibility-requirements-for-public-sector-websites-and-apps https://www.gov.uk/guidance/accessibility-requirements-for-p...
- goldcd 4y ago
  Oh I agree - it looks like it does for all of those reasons. Even for normal me, when using it, I find I like the design language. e.g. When sorting out my tax, it has sections that clearly explain "Does this apply to you" and if it does and you fill it in, then you get a summary on the "master-list" you eventually submit. Also the only site where clicking on the "more info" section actually clears up any query I had. I've no doubt there're endless interactions, a/b testing and all the rest that have enabled them to create something that looks so basic. It's just that's such an unfamiliar pattern to engage with. We all "tut-tut" over "dark design" - but there are very few commercial sites that want you to get in, do your task quickly/accurately - and then leave for a year. e.g. Google prides themselves on you finding what you're looking for quickly - but they want you to come back again.
  - d4mi3n 4y ago
    I feel this way about most utilities I deal with. TMobile and Comcast both have terrible UX for their websites. PG&E is a bit better, but only in that it's better organized. I'd love for more services to have simpler interfaces. I honestly feel the web in general is over-complicated for most day-to-day tasks. This may just me being grumpy about the volume of poorly implemented single page apps I run into.
    - goldcd 4y ago
      Oh, you've just picked another of my personal scabs there. "We'd like you to use our website, but we don't take it seriously" You know the companies, they stick up your renewal quote 20% and hope you'll not notice. You go to their web-site, and there's just an "accept" button. You enter 'web-chat and after 30 mins, they'll knock it down to an 18% increase" Then you phone them and after some endless messages around "have you tried using our website" you can eventually escalate it through a few phone operators around the world to 'on-shore-customer-retention", who'll knock it down to an inflationary 3% increase. Feel all this could easily be replaced by some 30 min online IQ test - I'd still waste the same time, but at least it would cost them less to retain me.
barbell 4y ago
I hate to break it to you, but they did decide that private companies would enhance the experience, they call it "Making Tax Digital". Soon for VAT and Income Tax you will need to use "compatible software" from an approved vendor, you won't be allowed to just submit your details through the governments own website anymore. Great stuff. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/find-software-thats-compatible-with-making-tax-digital-for-income-tax https://www.gov.uk/guidance/find-software-thats-compatible-w...
- aidos 4y ago
  That seems pretty good, no? There won’t be any faffing with vat and it’ll be integrated right into Xero?
- mattbee 4y ago
  The API for MTD stuff is very open: https://developer.service.hmrc.gov.uk/api-documentation/docs/api https://developer.service.hmrc.gov.uk/api-documentation/docs... And because of that there's tonnes of approved software, including loads of actually-free services: https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/making-tax-digital-software https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/making-tax-digital-software Including GNUCash, where you can register for your own developer key and file away for free - https://github.com/cybermaggedon/gnucash-uk-vat https://github.com/cybermaggedon/gnucash-uk-vat This seems like exactly the right way for a government to opt out of writing its own web front-ends.
  - robertlagrant 4y ago
    Agreed. The best UX is one everyone's taxes don't have to pay for.
- goldcd 4y ago
  That has depressed me.. The optimist hopes that this is just compliance with a well designed API.. the realist saw Intuit on that list..
  - anticensor 4y ago

by goldcd 4y ago

jl6 4y ago

gov.uk is a breath of fresh air compared to the commercial swamp of the surface web. It’s a great example of design-is-how-it-works elevated above design-is-how-it-looks.

d4mi3n 4y ago

> It has the appearance that it was knocked up in notepad, but after using it, I have a modicum of respect for how it makes government usable. I'd wager that the looks have a lot to do with accessibility. Government sites are interesting in that to fill their purpose they're on the far end of the spectrum of website and system accessibility—in that they must be usable for: 1. People who don't have typical eyesight—colorblind, blind, vision with poor focus, issues distinguishing text without a sufficient level of contrast 2. People who don't use keyboards or mice to navigate—this could include folks using screen readers, voice assistants, or more exotic interface devices (think paraplegics using eye-tracking software or tongue switches). 3. People who are not neurotlypical and may struggle to use the website—think dyslexia, anxiety (info-dense walls of text can trigger panic attacks), or individuals who have trouble using computers or the internet. There's likely a lot more there than I'm personally aware of, but making even a basic service available and usable to a constituency can take a huge amount of effort. The UK gov website guidelines[1] touch on this and I applaud any government or organization that takes these things seriously. 1. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/accessibility-requirements-for-public-sector-websites-and-apps https://www.gov.uk/guidance/accessibility-requirements-for-p...

goldcd 4y ago
Oh I agree - it looks like it does for all of those reasons. Even for normal me, when using it, I find I like the design language. e.g. When sorting out my tax, it has sections that clearly explain "Does this apply to you" and if it does and you fill it in, then you get a summary on the "master-list" you eventually submit. Also the only site where clicking on the "more info" section actually clears up any query I had. I've no doubt there're endless interactions, a/b testing and all the rest that have enabled them to create something that looks so basic. It's just that's such an unfamiliar pattern to engage with. We all "tut-tut" over "dark design" - but there are very few commercial sites that want you to get in, do your task quickly/accurately - and then leave for a year. e.g. Google prides themselves on you finding what you're looking for quickly - but they want you to come back again.
- d4mi3n 4y ago
  I feel this way about most utilities I deal with. TMobile and Comcast both have terrible UX for their websites. PG&E is a bit better, but only in that it's better organized. I'd love for more services to have simpler interfaces. I honestly feel the web in general is over-complicated for most day-to-day tasks. This may just me being grumpy about the volume of poorly implemented single page apps I run into.
  - goldcd 4y ago
    Oh, you've just picked another of my personal scabs there. "We'd like you to use our website, but we don't take it seriously" You know the companies, they stick up your renewal quote 20% and hope you'll not notice. You go to their web-site, and there's just an "accept" button. You enter 'web-chat and after 30 mins, they'll knock it down to an 18% increase" Then you phone them and after some endless messages around "have you tried using our website" you can eventually escalate it through a few phone operators around the world to 'on-shore-customer-retention", who'll knock it down to an inflationary 3% increase. Feel all this could easily be replaced by some 30 min online IQ test - I'd still waste the same time, but at least it would cost them less to retain me.

barbell 4y ago

I hate to break it to you, but they did decide that private companies would enhance the experience, they call it "Making Tax Digital". Soon for VAT and Income Tax you will need to use "compatible software" from an approved vendor, you won't be allowed to just submit your details through the governments own website anymore. Great stuff. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/find-software-thats-compatible-with-making-tax-digital-for-income-tax https://www.gov.uk/guidance/find-software-thats-compatible-w...

aidos 4y ago
That seems pretty good, no? There won’t be any faffing with vat and it’ll be integrated right into Xero?
mattbee 4y ago
The API for MTD stuff is very open: https://developer.service.hmrc.gov.uk/api-documentation/docs/api https://developer.service.hmrc.gov.uk/api-documentation/docs... And because of that there's tonnes of approved software, including loads of actually-free services: https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/making-tax-digital-software https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/making-tax-digital-software Including GNUCash, where you can register for your own developer key and file away for free - https://github.com/cybermaggedon/gnucash-uk-vat https://github.com/cybermaggedon/gnucash-uk-vat This seems like exactly the right way for a government to opt out of writing its own web front-ends.
- robertlagrant 4y ago
  Agreed. The best UX is one everyone's taxes don't have to pay for.
goldcd 4y ago
That has depressed me.. The optimist hopes that this is just compliance with a well designed API.. the realist saw Intuit on that list..
- anticensor 4y ago