8 ms·

Ask HN: I’ve reached the crossroad – advice needed

19 points by addajones 4y ago

I’ve been a member of this site since 2016. I’ve always been fascinated with technology, computers, and coding, since I was a kid. I grew up and live in Los Angeles, playing classical piano, songwriting, composing, and majored in music business. I’ve managed a construction company, and I’ve been running my recording studio for the last 15+ years since graduating from college. I’ve produced numerous major label hip-hop artists from the Wu-Tang Clan, to Rick Ross, to Nas. I’ve finally reached a crossroad. The industry isn’t as stable as it once was, and I’m looking to transition my career. I’m 37M, newly married with no kids (yet) and ready for some change. I’ve read HN daily for the last 5 years and I’m looking for advice as I’ve read so many articles here and comments upon comments of yours that have encouraged me to take the leap. Throughout my professional music career, and since I was a kid learning piano, I always built my own PCs, set up Linux servers for fun, coded websites and tinkered away. The joy has always been there. I’ve finally decided to ask you all here at HN what path I should take if you were in my shoes. Currently I’ve been looking at Google Certifications (UX/UI, Data Analyst, Project Manager) Is that a route that would be suggested, or perhaps a different one? I hope this post isn’t too long, and I’m an open book. I really appreciate any advice here as I am looking to reach the next phase of growth, development, and challenges in my life. I’m capable, determined, and very excited about this. Thank you to each and every one of you.

bitxbitxbitcoin 4y ago
I would suggest parlaying your music industry experience into some kind of passion website that would allow you to utilize your former network for monetization. Maybe create a resource that highlights the physical studio that albums were recorded at. Feature obscure rap history or just review studio equipment. Reach out (same name on Twitter) if you wanna chat more.
- addajones 4y ago
  Those are some good ideas, I will reach out to you on Twitter, thanks.
- addajones 4y ago
  Just followed you on twitter, my initials are DK. follow back and I'll shoot you a DM.
sharemywin 4y ago
Any one of those is a reasonable "stable" option. really a personal choice. Work on a personal project then look for an entry level job. Pay is irrelevant on your first job since it's a stepping stone. bust your ass for a year or two then look for a better paying job.
- addajones 4y ago
  Thanks for responding, greatly appreciated!
smarri 4y ago
I'm a similar age and working full time in a commercial role (in technology) but now 1 year into a 3 year part time Masters in software development as I'd like to improve my technical skills. I decided it would be good to continue doing what I'm doing, but dedicate my spare time work on the thing that could bring about change. It may not be for you, and it's probably a slower path to change, but it keeps the options open. Wishing you good luck addajones!
- addajones 4y ago
  Congrats on your path and your commitment! It’s great to hear about it and wishing you good luck as well, thank you!
joshstrange 4y ago
I've always found certifications to be a waste of time and money. There is a probably a sweet spot when they matter but it's fleeting and the companies selling you courses/certifications have zero interest in letting you the truth about how much it's "worth". If you have the skills to get an entry-level web development job then I'd suggest going to for that to get your foot in the door, work for 1-2 years, then look for something better paying. You'll also have a better idea of if you even like doing it professionally and/or what you want to "specialize" in. I'd also suggest staying away from larger companies (FAANG and the like), you will learn more at smaller company as you'll probably need to wear many "hats" which also gives you a good chance to see what you like (Is it DevOps? Frontend? Backend? PM? UI/UX? etc).
- addajones 4y ago
  I’m self-taught in all that I’ve learned in tech, even in music production and audio engineering. I was thinking the Google certification would be beneficial because of their network of companies, and the entire tech industry is much more formal it seems compared to the hip-hop music industry which is like the Wild West to the tenth degree. I’m trying to learn a new skill, that’s why I was perhaps thinking of a Certification, where I can still create music and run my studio as I gain the tech knowledge and confidence in a 6-month course and continue forward. Thank you
  - joshstrange 4y ago
    > compared to the hip-hop music industry which is like the Wild West to the tenth degree I feel like everyone (myself included) thinks "Oh, that company/industry has their shit together", spoiler: they don't. One lesson I have to keep reminding myself of and relearning is a large company (even successful ones) doesn't not immediately equate to knowing what they are doing. Imposter syndrome is a huge issue inside the tech industry, I imagine it's even worse for the people on the outside looking in. Maybe a part-time web development job would work for you? Get your feet wet without having to go full-time right away. My comments about certifications really boil down to "Don't expect a certification to result in a job or even better standing among other applicants". Being someone who is enjoyable to talk to/work with goes way further in my book. I'll take a "1x" programmer that's easy to work with over a "10x" that's a jerk or has no social skills. Also your "self-taught" skills are probably a lot better than you are giving yourself credit for. I'd bet money you would do better than the majority of new CS grads when it comes to actually producing.
givemeethekeys 4y ago
I recommend breaking up a large body of text into paragraphs for easier consumption. But also, certifications aren't bad but having a small project that you can apply what you learn to will give you a lot of confidence.
- addajones 4y ago
  I updated the text, maybe lost my formatting when I pasted it from my notes app! A small project on my own is a common theme I’m noticing here. I will get into that once I decide which direction to take in tech. Thank you!
tchock23 4y ago
Consider checking out the ‘no code’ movement and learning a platform like Bubble.io. If you’ve tinkered with code before you’ll have a leg up and there are tons of free resources to help you learn. Quite a few opportunities from there to turn it into six figure freelance or full time gigs, or continue the journey and become a full stack dev.
- addajones 4y ago
  Thank you for the suggestion, I’ll definitely take a look at Bubble.io. I’ve heard plenty about “no code” but I haven’t looked at it.
jarenmf 4y ago
I'm kind of in a similar situation, but instead of working I did a PhD in a field a bit far from computer science and eventually realized academia is not a place I want to stay in. Right now I'm thinking how to do the transition. I'm thinking of maybe doing data science, that way at least I can transfer some of the knowledge form my work in academia instead of starting from scratch but it is a difficult decision.
- addajones 4y ago
  That sounds like a great idea. Data science seems to be a great way to go. I don’t think I have the full-time to go back into academia which is why I’m looking at certifications and picking it up as I go along. Love working with people, that’s about all I do in a recording studio. Enter the studio with nothing, and leave with fully produced and written songs.
jonahbenton 4y ago
Congrats and best to you for reaching out. Two thoughts. I work with and have a good friend who followed similar trajectory- serious touring musician, show producer, etc for many years, now we work together in tech. He's a project manager. He's fantastic. Half of PMing is logistics and half is personalities. If you have produced, you have done both. The terminology in tech you will have to acquire- the artifacts/objects/roles, the process (agile/scrum/etc), and the tools (jira, github, etc). Whether you do that through self-teaching, classes, certifications depends on how you learn- but I suspect what will best is to find a way to shadow a team. You will learn more in a month from sitting in, asking questions, then following up with research than from any other activity. So if you have any friends in tech on whom you can impose yourself to let you listen in- highly, highly recommend doing that. Second point. There is a somewhat controversial movement in tech loosely known as "web3". If you have seen talk of "NFTs" or "crypto" these are adjacent. Some people hate it and attribute climate change, fraud and other evils to it. Others do not. If you are someone who would not, there is a burgeoning subfield impacting music. It is NOT stable, but there are lots of interesting and rewarding conversations for people whose experience spans the machinery both of music production and technology implementation. Best wishes again, seriously. Love your energy in reaching out and am sure things will go well for you.
- addajones 4y ago
  Thanks so so much for your mentioning of PM tools used and sharing having a musician you work with who made a similar type of transition! That sounds like a very exciting path. Just like I did in my teen years shadowing in recording studios and learning the process start to finish, I won’t be shy and go forward to shadow with teams in tech. I’ll go through my contacts and see if I can find any tech-related contacts. Highly appreciated. Thanks again Jonah.
cruano 4y ago
Maybe reach out to something like Splice [1]. It's still tech, but it's also related to the music industry, so you could leverage your experience. [1]https://worklife.splice.com https://worklife.splice.com
treis 4y ago
>I’ve been running my recording studio for the last 15+ years since graduating from college. I’ve produced numerous major label hip-hop artists from the Wu-Tang Clan, to Rick Ross, to Nas. I’ve finally reached a crossroad. The industry isn’t as stable as it once was, and I’m looking to transition my career. Throughout my professional music career, and since I was a kid learning piano, I always built my own PCs, set up Linux servers for fun, coded websites and tinkered away. Do you have some time to chat about any opportunities you may have? ^ Send that to every music related tech company you come across. They'll pretty much all be interested at some level. Edit to add: Take a go at some leetcode problems. If you can do the easy ones & make a reasonable effort at medium then you're good enough to get hired. If not practice until you can.
- mooreds 4y ago
  Agree with this. Tech is everywhere so finding an edge with domain knowledge will make you standout compared to all the other folks looking to get into it with no professional experience. I'd suggest targeting a few companies a week and doing research. As a (former) hiring manager, it is so much more powerful for me to get a message like this: "I was reading your company blog post about the resurgence of vinyl. It was really interesting. I sold all my vinyl in the 2000s, but have noticed it coming back at my local record store. I also saw that <company> is using golang and typescript, based on your job descriptions. I've used golang and really enjoyed it; I found the abstraction of channels made it really easy to communicate between different components. I was interested in applying to your engineering team. I have a lot of music experience and some tech experience. My resume is attached. I'd love to chat if you are interested in seeing if there's a mutual fit." Than one like this: "I was looking at your site and thought you might like to hire me. Resume attached." Doing just the slightest bit of research (30 min) will, again, make you stand out in a sea of resumes. (Of course, a warm intro is even better; LinkedIn can help you find out if you know anyone who knows anyone.)
  - addajones 4y ago
    This is priceless. I value your input and examples. It’s really helping me shape the direction I’ll go in. Would you suggest I research the companies to determine what type of positions for coding they have? I’m still determining if I’ll move forward with PM or picking a language to become proficient in. Thank you!!
b20000 4y ago
engineering is a career just like music. imagine you would want to make the reverse transition. would that make sense? it is not a get rich quick scheme or a solution to all problems.
- addajones 4y ago
  Agree completely! Just seems more appealing with the sense of it continuously growing as the music industry consolidates in many ways.
  - b20000 4y ago
    as long as you know what you are getting into … :)
c22 4y ago
Have some kids and become a stay at home dad. It's the most rewarding thing I've done yet.
- addajones 4y ago
  Are you working remotely?
  - c22 4y ago
    Nah, it's kind of a hands-on gig.
luhego 4y ago
You can try any free online bootcamp. Freecodecamp seems to be good for web development(JavaScript, HTML, CSS, etc). Then, you can try building some side projects(maybe music related). Good luck!
- addajones 4y ago
  Thanks I will take a look at Freecodecamp. Greatly appreciated.
rapjr9 4y ago
Your experience seems more oriented to deciding what you want to do rather than being told what to do. Consider whether you want to get into coding what other people tell you to code, it can suck all the joy out of it.
- addajones 4y ago
  Great perspective and very true. I’ll have to try some of the examples from comments here and see if coding itself is the direction I’ll go in. It’s the same as producing a certain genre of song that I’m not interested in.
digisign 4y ago
There are quite a few entertainment-related tech and tech-adjacent companies in LA, from startups to Disney, that would probably be interested. You don't mention a degree, but without it will be difficult to get a job at most coveted positions. For example don't even bother applying at Netflix or SpaceX, you won't even get a no-thank-you in response. Also, with everything we learn that doing something for a living kinda takes the fun out of it. So setting expectations properly will be helpful as well.
- addajones 4y ago
  Definitely completed undergrad in Music Business. After that went straight hi my the ground running. Music production, songwriting, managing, mastering, tour management, etc.
nonrandomstring 4y ago
How's your maths? Learning DSP, sysnthesis and so on might be a natural progression into a more technical area of music and sound production. LMK if you want a study plan.
- addajones 4y ago
  That could be a great area. Would love to know more, you can email me at emails44@icloud.com. I’ve used so many plugins over the years that are all modeled from real hardware that I also used.
orzig 4y ago
Coming from the data world, it will always be my bias, but I think there is a good case to be made for it being a good on-ramp from deep domain knowledge (which you have) with a gently sloping technical learning curve from “business analyst“ to“machine learning engineer“
jasrys 4y ago
There is a conference in Nashville next week (Music Biz 2022) discussing opportunities/challenges at the intersection of music/tech/data. You may discover some interesting music-adjacent industries and companies by attending or perusing the schedule. https://musicbiz.org/events/music-biz-annual-conference/music-biz-2022-schedule/ https://musicbiz.org/events/music-biz-annual-conference/musi...
- addajones 4y ago
  Thank you! Some interesting things scheduled around NFT and metaverse.
faangiq 4y ago
There’s still people making a lot of money in your industry. With your resume you should have an in somehow. I’d try that.
p0d 4y ago
I planned to take a leap 7 years ago and ended up working a 3 day week for the IT firm I worked for and two days on my own tech. 5 years later I left the firm. I didn't plan this approach but it turned out to be a good model. I was very naive about how hard it would be to make my own money.

19 points by addajones 4y ago

bitxbitxbitcoin 4y ago

I would suggest parlaying your music industry experience into some kind of passion website that would allow you to utilize your former network for monetization. Maybe create a resource that highlights the physical studio that albums were recorded at. Feature obscure rap history or just review studio equipment. Reach out (same name on Twitter) if you wanna chat more.

addajones 4y ago
Those are some good ideas, I will reach out to you on Twitter, thanks.
addajones 4y ago
Just followed you on twitter, my initials are DK. follow back and I'll shoot you a DM.

sharemywin 4y ago

Any one of those is a reasonable "stable" option. really a personal choice. Work on a personal project then look for an entry level job. Pay is irrelevant on your first job since it's a stepping stone. bust your ass for a year or two then look for a better paying job.

addajones 4y ago
Thanks for responding, greatly appreciated!

smarri 4y ago

I'm a similar age and working full time in a commercial role (in technology) but now 1 year into a 3 year part time Masters in software development as I'd like to improve my technical skills. I decided it would be good to continue doing what I'm doing, but dedicate my spare time work on the thing that could bring about change. It may not be for you, and it's probably a slower path to change, but it keeps the options open. Wishing you good luck addajones!

addajones 4y ago
Congrats on your path and your commitment! It’s great to hear about it and wishing you good luck as well, thank you!

joshstrange 4y ago

I've always found certifications to be a waste of time and money. There is a probably a sweet spot when they matter but it's fleeting and the companies selling you courses/certifications have zero interest in letting you the truth about how much it's "worth". If you have the skills to get an entry-level web development job then I'd suggest going to for that to get your foot in the door, work for 1-2 years, then look for something better paying. You'll also have a better idea of if you even like doing it professionally and/or what you want to "specialize" in. I'd also suggest staying away from larger companies (FAANG and the like), you will learn more at smaller company as you'll probably need to wear many "hats" which also gives you a good chance to see what you like (Is it DevOps? Frontend? Backend? PM? UI/UX? etc).

addajones 4y ago
I’m self-taught in all that I’ve learned in tech, even in music production and audio engineering. I was thinking the Google certification would be beneficial because of their network of companies, and the entire tech industry is much more formal it seems compared to the hip-hop music industry which is like the Wild West to the tenth degree. I’m trying to learn a new skill, that’s why I was perhaps thinking of a Certification, where I can still create music and run my studio as I gain the tech knowledge and confidence in a 6-month course and continue forward. Thank you
- joshstrange 4y ago
  > compared to the hip-hop music industry which is like the Wild West to the tenth degree I feel like everyone (myself included) thinks "Oh, that company/industry has their shit together", spoiler: they don't. One lesson I have to keep reminding myself of and relearning is a large company (even successful ones) doesn't not immediately equate to knowing what they are doing. Imposter syndrome is a huge issue inside the tech industry, I imagine it's even worse for the people on the outside looking in. Maybe a part-time web development job would work for you? Get your feet wet without having to go full-time right away. My comments about certifications really boil down to "Don't expect a certification to result in a job or even better standing among other applicants". Being someone who is enjoyable to talk to/work with goes way further in my book. I'll take a "1x" programmer that's easy to work with over a "10x" that's a jerk or has no social skills. Also your "self-taught" skills are probably a lot better than you are giving yourself credit for. I'd bet money you would do better than the majority of new CS grads when it comes to actually producing.

givemeethekeys 4y ago

I recommend breaking up a large body of text into paragraphs for easier consumption. But also, certifications aren't bad but having a small project that you can apply what you learn to will give you a lot of confidence.

addajones 4y ago
I updated the text, maybe lost my formatting when I pasted it from my notes app! A small project on my own is a common theme I’m noticing here. I will get into that once I decide which direction to take in tech. Thank you!

tchock23 4y ago

Consider checking out the ‘no code’ movement and learning a platform like Bubble.io. If you’ve tinkered with code before you’ll have a leg up and there are tons of free resources to help you learn. Quite a few opportunities from there to turn it into six figure freelance or full time gigs, or continue the journey and become a full stack dev.

addajones 4y ago
Thank you for the suggestion, I’ll definitely take a look at Bubble.io. I’ve heard plenty about “no code” but I haven’t looked at it.

jarenmf 4y ago

I'm kind of in a similar situation, but instead of working I did a PhD in a field a bit far from computer science and eventually realized academia is not a place I want to stay in. Right now I'm thinking how to do the transition. I'm thinking of maybe doing data science, that way at least I can transfer some of the knowledge form my work in academia instead of starting from scratch but it is a difficult decision.

addajones 4y ago
That sounds like a great idea. Data science seems to be a great way to go. I don’t think I have the full-time to go back into academia which is why I’m looking at certifications and picking it up as I go along. Love working with people, that’s about all I do in a recording studio. Enter the studio with nothing, and leave with fully produced and written songs.

jonahbenton 4y ago

Congrats and best to you for reaching out. Two thoughts. I work with and have a good friend who followed similar trajectory- serious touring musician, show producer, etc for many years, now we work together in tech. He's a project manager. He's fantastic. Half of PMing is logistics and half is personalities. If you have produced, you have done both. The terminology in tech you will have to acquire- the artifacts/objects/roles, the process (agile/scrum/etc), and the tools (jira, github, etc). Whether you do that through self-teaching, classes, certifications depends on how you learn- but I suspect what will best is to find a way to shadow a team. You will learn more in a month from sitting in, asking questions, then following up with research than from any other activity. So if you have any friends in tech on whom you can impose yourself to let you listen in- highly, highly recommend doing that. Second point. There is a somewhat controversial movement in tech loosely known as "web3". If you have seen talk of "NFTs" or "crypto" these are adjacent. Some people hate it and attribute climate change, fraud and other evils to it. Others do not. If you are someone who would not, there is a burgeoning subfield impacting music. It is NOT stable, but there are lots of interesting and rewarding conversations for people whose experience spans the machinery both of music production and technology implementation. Best wishes again, seriously. Love your energy in reaching out and am sure things will go well for you.

addajones 4y ago
Thanks so so much for your mentioning of PM tools used and sharing having a musician you work with who made a similar type of transition! That sounds like a very exciting path. Just like I did in my teen years shadowing in recording studios and learning the process start to finish, I won’t be shy and go forward to shadow with teams in tech. I’ll go through my contacts and see if I can find any tech-related contacts. Highly appreciated. Thanks again Jonah.

cruano 4y ago

Maybe reach out to something like Splice [1]. It's still tech, but it's also related to the music industry, so you could leverage your experience. [1]https://worklife.splice.com https://worklife.splice.com

treis 4y ago

>I’ve been running my recording studio for the last 15+ years since graduating from college. I’ve produced numerous major label hip-hop artists from the Wu-Tang Clan, to Rick Ross, to Nas. I’ve finally reached a crossroad. The industry isn’t as stable as it once was, and I’m looking to transition my career. Throughout my professional music career, and since I was a kid learning piano, I always built my own PCs, set up Linux servers for fun, coded websites and tinkered away. Do you have some time to chat about any opportunities you may have? ^ Send that to every music related tech company you come across. They'll pretty much all be interested at some level. Edit to add: Take a go at some leetcode problems. If you can do the easy ones & make a reasonable effort at medium then you're good enough to get hired. If not practice until you can.

mooreds 4y ago
Agree with this. Tech is everywhere so finding an edge with domain knowledge will make you standout compared to all the other folks looking to get into it with no professional experience. I'd suggest targeting a few companies a week and doing research. As a (former) hiring manager, it is so much more powerful for me to get a message like this: "I was reading your company blog post about the resurgence of vinyl. It was really interesting. I sold all my vinyl in the 2000s, but have noticed it coming back at my local record store. I also saw that <company> is using golang and typescript, based on your job descriptions. I've used golang and really enjoyed it; I found the abstraction of channels made it really easy to communicate between different components. I was interested in applying to your engineering team. I have a lot of music experience and some tech experience. My resume is attached. I'd love to chat if you are interested in seeing if there's a mutual fit." Than one like this: "I was looking at your site and thought you might like to hire me. Resume attached." Doing just the slightest bit of research (30 min) will, again, make you stand out in a sea of resumes. (Of course, a warm intro is even better; LinkedIn can help you find out if you know anyone who knows anyone.)
- addajones 4y ago
  This is priceless. I value your input and examples. It’s really helping me shape the direction I’ll go in. Would you suggest I research the companies to determine what type of positions for coding they have? I’m still determining if I’ll move forward with PM or picking a language to become proficient in. Thank you!!

b20000 4y ago

engineering is a career just like music. imagine you would want to make the reverse transition. would that make sense? it is not a get rich quick scheme or a solution to all problems.

addajones 4y ago
Agree completely! Just seems more appealing with the sense of it continuously growing as the music industry consolidates in many ways.
- b20000 4y ago
  as long as you know what you are getting into … :)

c22 4y ago

Have some kids and become a stay at home dad. It's the most rewarding thing I've done yet.

addajones 4y ago
Are you working remotely?
- c22 4y ago
  Nah, it's kind of a hands-on gig.

luhego 4y ago

You can try any free online bootcamp. Freecodecamp seems to be good for web development(JavaScript, HTML, CSS, etc). Then, you can try building some side projects(maybe music related). Good luck!

addajones 4y ago
Thanks I will take a look at Freecodecamp. Greatly appreciated.

rapjr9 4y ago

Your experience seems more oriented to deciding what you want to do rather than being told what to do. Consider whether you want to get into coding what other people tell you to code, it can suck all the joy out of it.

addajones 4y ago
Great perspective and very true. I’ll have to try some of the examples from comments here and see if coding itself is the direction I’ll go in. It’s the same as producing a certain genre of song that I’m not interested in.

digisign 4y ago

There are quite a few entertainment-related tech and tech-adjacent companies in LA, from startups to Disney, that would probably be interested. You don't mention a degree, but without it will be difficult to get a job at most coveted positions. For example don't even bother applying at Netflix or SpaceX, you won't even get a no-thank-you in response. Also, with everything we learn that doing something for a living kinda takes the fun out of it. So setting expectations properly will be helpful as well.

addajones 4y ago
Definitely completed undergrad in Music Business. After that went straight hi my the ground running. Music production, songwriting, managing, mastering, tour management, etc.

nonrandomstring 4y ago

How's your maths? Learning DSP, sysnthesis and so on might be a natural progression into a more technical area of music and sound production. LMK if you want a study plan.

addajones 4y ago
That could be a great area. Would love to know more, you can email me at emails44@icloud.com. I’ve used so many plugins over the years that are all modeled from real hardware that I also used.

orzig 4y ago

Coming from the data world, it will always be my bias, but I think there is a good case to be made for it being a good on-ramp from deep domain knowledge (which you have) with a gently sloping technical learning curve from “business analyst“ to“machine learning engineer“

jasrys 4y ago

There is a conference in Nashville next week (Music Biz 2022) discussing opportunities/challenges at the intersection of music/tech/data. You may discover some interesting music-adjacent industries and companies by attending or perusing the schedule. https://musicbiz.org/events/music-biz-annual-conference/music-biz-2022-schedule/ https://musicbiz.org/events/music-biz-annual-conference/musi...

addajones 4y ago
Thank you! Some interesting things scheduled around NFT and metaverse.

faangiq 4y ago

There’s still people making a lot of money in your industry. With your resume you should have an in somehow. I’d try that.

p0d 4y ago

I planned to take a leap 7 years ago and ended up working a 3 day week for the IT firm I worked for and two days on my own tech. 5 years later I left the firm. I didn't plan this approach but it turned out to be a good model. I was very naive about how hard it would be to make my own money.