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For anyone else who wonders wtf tailscale is: > Tailscale is a VPN service that makes the devices and applications you own accessible anywhere in the world, se

For anyone else who wonders wtf tailscale is: > Tailscale is a VPN service that makes the devices and applications you own accessible anywhere in the world, securely and effortlessly. It enables encrypted point-to-point connections using the open source WireGuard protocol, which means only devices on your private network can communicate with each other. It seems to take care of key distribution, nat-traversal, authentication etc etc Neat! No sure how that is 'fixing internet' exactly, but really cool anyway

gowld 4y ago
"Fixing the internet" == you can comunicate with computers that want to comunicate with you, and not with others.
- contravariant 4y ago
  "Fixing the internet" == you can communicate with computers that you want to communicate with, and not with others.
  - philipov 4y ago
    "Fixing the internet" == computers that mutually consent to communicating with each other are able to communicate with each other
    - xeyownt 4y ago
      "Fixing the internet" == computers whose _owners_mutually consent to communicating with each other are able to communicate with each other
  - lupire 4y ago
    You can do some things that you don't want to do. If someone uses a rubber hose, you might be forced to communicate against your will, using the fixed Internet.
yrro 4y ago
Tailscale is one of the ways you can restore the end-to-end connectivity principle that IP introduced and that NAT destroyed.
- legalcorrection 4y ago
  This is kind of overstated. Even if everyone went IPv6 and gave every device a public IP address, pretty much every network would have a firewall that behaved just like NAT.
  - Spivak 4y ago
    Yeah, no one is going to allow unsolicited inbound connections even without NAT so you still have to have something to hook up the two ends in a P2P setting.
    - throw0101a 4y ago
      > Yeah, no one is going to allow unsolicited inbound connections even without NAT so you still have to have something to hook up the two ends in a P2P setting. Sure they are. All home routers that I'm aware of allow for port forwarding so folks can self-host a service: perhaps a game server (e.g., Minecraft), web, e-mail, etc. It's just going forward you can set up a separate subnet to put your gear in (especially if you get multiple /64 subnets from your ISP). You can have a DMZ, and use either the router- and/or host-level firewall to dictate which connections are allowed.
      - zinekeller 4y ago
        ... if your definition of "home routers" excludes ISP-provided ones, then I'll agree. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that either you are on an ISP that actually cared and found a good supplier or didn't check out what are the capabilities of ISP-provided routers.
        dsr_ 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ncmncm 4y ago
I thought that Tailscale was pretty interesting. Avery Pennarun, its CTO, is somebody whose judgment I am used to trusting. Then I learned that to use it, I would be dependent on authenticating using a login on one of the unaccountable internet behemoths who could take away my account for any random reason or no expressed reason at all. No, thank you.
- naikrovek 4y ago
  Google does that, Microsoft doesn't. Microsoft will ban you from a particular service if you egregiously violate the terms of service for a particular application of theirs, but never the whole account. Google will throw you on your ass in the blink of an eye.
  - skoskie 4y ago
    Is there anything in there TOS that states it or has this just been their practice so far?
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      Does it matter? Whether they say they will do it, or just do it without saying they will, the experience is the same. What matters most is if they can. Then, if they ever have done. What I want is that they can't.
      - naikrovek 4y ago
        you want a free service written, maintained, and hosted by others that they don't control. Am I understanding you?
        ncmncm 4y ago
        No. I would be happy to pay for service, but they offer no choice but to rely on somebody else's authentication, regardless.
IanCal 4y ago
I'm about to go away but having local access will be very useful. I've just setup tailscale in a few minutes, very smoothly. I'm impressed it scales down to this kind of simple use case nicely, and it seems it has nice features as my use cases might scale up.
zepearl 4y ago
So basically Wireguard with automated key setup/distribution/identity management? (btw. I love Wireguard - currenly using it to route traffic between my servers + transfer media between my home and my mother's mediacenter with both PCs being behind their own router - she loves it too as so far there were no problems hehe)
- zellyn 4y ago
  That, plus fanatically good NAT Traversal: https://tailscale.com/blog/how-nat-traversal-works/ https://tailscale.com/blog/how-nat-traversal-works/
  - zepearl 4y ago
    But isn't that just part of Wireguard itself? In the end that's what's happening in my case when I exchange data through Wireguard between my flat and the one of my parents... .
    - seabrookmx 4y ago
      No, wireguard is just the VPN itself. The NAT traversal stuff is all magic that happens before the socket is given to wireguard.
      - zepearl 4y ago
        thx
  - dx034 4y ago
    A bit offtopic, but how did they create the visualizations? Do they have a designer on their team for that or is there any good tool that creates charts like these?
    - zellyn 4y ago
      A designer drew them: https://twitter.com/apenwarr/status/1241188397013774337 https://twitter.com/apenwarr/status/1241188397013774337 I took a stab at recreating one of the diagrams here, using pikchr: https://zellyn.com/2022/02/tailscale-diagram-in-pikchr/ https://zellyn.com/2022/02/tailscale-diagram-in-pikchr/
conductr 4y ago
Maybe a apt place to ask the question, all of my devices are silos. I’m still wondering if this is for people besides me, or if I’m just missing the potential use cases for myself. I have never needed to connect my device to each other. In the house I have a few laptops, a couple phones, Xbox, Apple TV’s, fire sticks, and every device is just connected to the google mesh Wi-Fi. Every device communicates out for what it needs (and yeah probably more) but I never in years have needed to use a device as a server unless I was developing on it and using it as localhost. Do I still have a use for tailscale?
dataangel 4y ago
How is that different than just regular VPN?

gowld 4y ago

"Fixing the internet" == you can comunicate with computers that want to comunicate with you, and not with others.

contravariant 4y ago
"Fixing the internet" == you can communicate with computers that you want to communicate with, and not with others.
- philipov 4y ago
  "Fixing the internet" == computers that mutually consent to communicating with each other are able to communicate with each other
  - xeyownt 4y ago
    "Fixing the internet" == computers whose _owners_mutually consent to communicating with each other are able to communicate with each other
- lupire 4y ago
  You can do some things that you don't want to do. If someone uses a rubber hose, you might be forced to communicate against your will, using the fixed Internet.

yrro 4y ago

Tailscale is one of the ways you can restore the end-to-end connectivity principle that IP introduced and that NAT destroyed.

legalcorrection 4y ago
This is kind of overstated. Even if everyone went IPv6 and gave every device a public IP address, pretty much every network would have a firewall that behaved just like NAT.
- Spivak 4y ago
  Yeah, no one is going to allow unsolicited inbound connections even without NAT so you still have to have something to hook up the two ends in a P2P setting.
  - throw0101a 4y ago
    > Yeah, no one is going to allow unsolicited inbound connections even without NAT so you still have to have something to hook up the two ends in a P2P setting. Sure they are. All home routers that I'm aware of allow for port forwarding so folks can self-host a service: perhaps a game server (e.g., Minecraft), web, e-mail, etc. It's just going forward you can set up a separate subnet to put your gear in (especially if you get multiple /64 subnets from your ISP). You can have a DMZ, and use either the router- and/or host-level firewall to dictate which connections are allowed.
    - zinekeller 4y ago
      ... if your definition of "home routers" excludes ISP-provided ones, then I'll agree. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that either you are on an ISP that actually cared and found a good supplier or didn't check out what are the capabilities of ISP-provided routers.
      - dsr_ 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ncmncm 4y ago

I thought that Tailscale was pretty interesting. Avery Pennarun, its CTO, is somebody whose judgment I am used to trusting. Then I learned that to use it, I would be dependent on authenticating using a login on one of the unaccountable internet behemoths who could take away my account for any random reason or no expressed reason at all. No, thank you.

naikrovek 4y ago
Google does that, Microsoft doesn't. Microsoft will ban you from a particular service if you egregiously violate the terms of service for a particular application of theirs, but never the whole account. Google will throw you on your ass in the blink of an eye.
- skoskie 4y ago
  Is there anything in there TOS that states it or has this just been their practice so far?
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    Does it matter? Whether they say they will do it, or just do it without saying they will, the experience is the same. What matters most is if they can. Then, if they ever have done. What I want is that they can't.
    - naikrovek 4y ago
      you want a free service written, maintained, and hosted by others that they don't control. Am I understanding you?
      - ncmncm 4y ago
        No. I would be happy to pay for service, but they offer no choice but to rely on somebody else's authentication, regardless.

IanCal 4y ago

I'm about to go away but having local access will be very useful. I've just setup tailscale in a few minutes, very smoothly. I'm impressed it scales down to this kind of simple use case nicely, and it seems it has nice features as my use cases might scale up.

zepearl 4y ago

So basically Wireguard with automated key setup/distribution/identity management? (btw. I love Wireguard - currenly using it to route traffic between my servers + transfer media between my home and my mother's mediacenter with both PCs being behind their own router - she loves it too as so far there were no problems hehe)

zellyn 4y ago
That, plus fanatically good NAT Traversal: https://tailscale.com/blog/how-nat-traversal-works/ https://tailscale.com/blog/how-nat-traversal-works/
- zepearl 4y ago
  But isn't that just part of Wireguard itself? In the end that's what's happening in my case when I exchange data through Wireguard between my flat and the one of my parents... .
  - seabrookmx 4y ago
    No, wireguard is just the VPN itself. The NAT traversal stuff is all magic that happens before the socket is given to wireguard.
    - zepearl 4y ago
      thx
- dx034 4y ago
  A bit offtopic, but how did they create the visualizations? Do they have a designer on their team for that or is there any good tool that creates charts like these?
  - zellyn 4y ago
    A designer drew them: https://twitter.com/apenwarr/status/1241188397013774337 https://twitter.com/apenwarr/status/1241188397013774337 I took a stab at recreating one of the diagrams here, using pikchr: https://zellyn.com/2022/02/tailscale-diagram-in-pikchr/ https://zellyn.com/2022/02/tailscale-diagram-in-pikchr/

conductr 4y ago

Maybe a apt place to ask the question, all of my devices are silos. I’m still wondering if this is for people besides me, or if I’m just missing the potential use cases for myself. I have never needed to connect my device to each other. In the house I have a few laptops, a couple phones, Xbox, Apple TV’s, fire sticks, and every device is just connected to the google mesh Wi-Fi. Every device communicates out for what it needs (and yeah probably more) but I never in years have needed to use a device as a server unless I was developing on it and using it as localhost. Do I still have a use for tailscale?

dataangel 4y ago

How is that different than just regular VPN?