5 ms·

This sounds just creepy that they are suggesting no more anonymity on the internet... as a "fix".

by RobertRoberts 4y ago

jaywalk 4y ago
What a strange and utterly incorrect way to interpret Tailscale's mission.
- orangepurple 4y ago
  From the website: What if we all just had a static IP address, and a DNS name? …and the address migrated around the world with you? …and you could connect to any of your devices no matter where they were? Does this not promote the destruction of anonymity on the Internet?
  - jaywalk 4y ago
    I think you've got a fundamental misunderstanding of what Tailscale does. It's all about accessing your own devices. You don't need or want anonymity in that case. They are not a general purpose VPN service, and can't even be used as one.
    - RobertRoberts 4y ago
      No, I think you misunderstand that companies like this have huge visions, not tiny one like "just your own devices". They are claiming they are on the road to "fix the internet", their own words.
    - cassianoleal 4y ago
      > They are not a general purpose VPN service, and can't even be used as one. I'm not sure what you mean by this, but this sounds like exactly what they are, with some functionality on top. It's what I use to VPN into my LAN from outside, and it's pretty general purpose from where I stand.
      - jaywalk 4y ago
        I'm talking about services like NordVPN, Mullvad, etc. They do not funnel your Internet connection through their servers.
        cassianoleal 4y ago
        Ah, fair enough. Those are not general purpose VPNs though. In fact, they are not even VPNs in the first place. They merely use the same technology to provide a private tunnel to the public Internet (and use the name in marketing material because by now people are familiar with it). What they are not is general purpose private networks.
        jaywalk 4y ago
        They are absolutely VPNs. If you don't like my term "general purpose" that's fine, but they 100% fit the definition of VPN.
        cassianoleal 4y ago
        A VPN is a Virtual Private Network. Those services you mentioned merely provide a secure tunnel to the same public Internet you'd have access without them, avoiding eavesdropping by your ISP or other intermediaries, whilst handing over that capability to the "VPN" provider. There is no private network anywhere in this case. An actual VPN provides you with a private network that just happens to workover of the public Internet, usually encrypted, but is inaccessible from it. A virtual private network (VPN) extends a private network across a public network and enables users to send and receive data across shared or public networks as if their computing devices were directly connected to the private network. The benefits of a VPN include increases in functionality, security, and management of the private network. It provides access to resources that are inaccessible on the public network and is typically used for remote workers. Encryption is common, although not an inherent part of a VPN connection. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_private_network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_private_network
  - lvh 4y ago
    No? The fact that some machines (notably: all your _own devices_) need to be able to reliably talk to each other does nothing to impact anonymity on the Internet. Sure, you can route everything out of your own IP using Tailscale also, and that might be desirable if you're on a crappy connection, but it's still completely orthogonal to privacy-preserving techniques like Tor (and may in fact make those easier to deploy). Tailscale doesn't make privacy worse any more than the fact that to a first approximation, no residential Internet provider in the US has rotated an IP in recent memory. (Disclosure: I'm a (small) investor via Latacora's sibling fund, Lagomorphic.)
- RobertRoberts 4y ago
  It's not their "mission" but it is their system. If you have a static IP address where "...the address migrated around the world with you..." how do you think that will work for people that _NEED_ anonymity? Will they be left out of this new internet?
  - jaywalk 4y ago
    Tailscale is for accessing your own devices, it's not a general purpose VPN service. Anonymity is not a factor.
    - RobertRoberts 4y ago
      The title of the article from Tailscale is "...to fix the Internet"... if it was "only" about "your own devices" then you are assuming they are thinking small.
      - jaywalk 4y ago
        You're assuming that they're thinking something completely outside of anything they've ever said, and something that nobody actually wants. Your assumption is the one that's out of left field, not mine.
        RobertRoberts 4y ago
        You haven't proved me wrong, you just said I am wrong.
        jaywalk 4y ago
        I don't have to prove you wrong, I'm not making an assertion. It's on you to prove that your assertion is correct, and you have nothing more than your opinion backing you up.
        RobertRoberts 4y ago

This sounds just creepy that they are suggesting no more anonymity on the internet... as a "fix".

jaywalk 4y ago

What a strange and utterly incorrect way to interpret Tailscale's mission.

orangepurple 4y ago
From the website: What if we all just had a static IP address, and a DNS name? …and the address migrated around the world with you? …and you could connect to any of your devices no matter where they were? Does this not promote the destruction of anonymity on the Internet?
- jaywalk 4y ago
  I think you've got a fundamental misunderstanding of what Tailscale does. It's all about accessing your own devices. You don't need or want anonymity in that case. They are not a general purpose VPN service, and can't even be used as one.
  - RobertRoberts 4y ago
    No, I think you misunderstand that companies like this have huge visions, not tiny one like "just your own devices". They are claiming they are on the road to "fix the internet", their own words.
  - cassianoleal 4y ago
    > They are not a general purpose VPN service, and can't even be used as one. I'm not sure what you mean by this, but this sounds like exactly what they are, with some functionality on top. It's what I use to VPN into my LAN from outside, and it's pretty general purpose from where I stand.
    - jaywalk 4y ago
      I'm talking about services like NordVPN, Mullvad, etc. They do not funnel your Internet connection through their servers.
      - cassianoleal 4y ago
        Ah, fair enough. Those are not general purpose VPNs though. In fact, they are not even VPNs in the first place. They merely use the same technology to provide a private tunnel to the public Internet (and use the name in marketing material because by now people are familiar with it). What they are not is general purpose private networks.
        jaywalk 4y ago
        They are absolutely VPNs. If you don't like my term "general purpose" that's fine, but they 100% fit the definition of VPN.
        cassianoleal 4y ago
        A VPN is a Virtual Private Network. Those services you mentioned merely provide a secure tunnel to the same public Internet you'd have access without them, avoiding eavesdropping by your ISP or other intermediaries, whilst handing over that capability to the "VPN" provider. There is no private network anywhere in this case. An actual VPN provides you with a private network that just happens to workover of the public Internet, usually encrypted, but is inaccessible from it. A virtual private network (VPN) extends a private network across a public network and enables users to send and receive data across shared or public networks as if their computing devices were directly connected to the private network. The benefits of a VPN include increases in functionality, security, and management of the private network. It provides access to resources that are inaccessible on the public network and is typically used for remote workers. Encryption is common, although not an inherent part of a VPN connection. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_private_network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_private_network
- lvh 4y ago
  No? The fact that some machines (notably: all your _own devices_) need to be able to reliably talk to each other does nothing to impact anonymity on the Internet. Sure, you can route everything out of your own IP using Tailscale also, and that might be desirable if you're on a crappy connection, but it's still completely orthogonal to privacy-preserving techniques like Tor (and may in fact make those easier to deploy). Tailscale doesn't make privacy worse any more than the fact that to a first approximation, no residential Internet provider in the US has rotated an IP in recent memory. (Disclosure: I'm a (small) investor via Latacora's sibling fund, Lagomorphic.)
RobertRoberts 4y ago
It's not their "mission" but it is their system. If you have a static IP address where "...the address migrated around the world with you..." how do you think that will work for people that _NEED_ anonymity? Will they be left out of this new internet?
- jaywalk 4y ago
  Tailscale is for accessing your own devices, it's not a general purpose VPN service. Anonymity is not a factor.
  - RobertRoberts 4y ago
    The title of the article from Tailscale is "...to fix the Internet"... if it was "only" about "your own devices" then you are assuming they are thinking small.
    - jaywalk 4y ago
      You're assuming that they're thinking something completely outside of anything they've ever said, and something that nobody actually wants. Your assumption is the one that's out of left field, not mine.
      - RobertRoberts 4y ago
        You haven't proved me wrong, you just said I am wrong.
        jaywalk 4y ago
        I don't have to prove you wrong, I'm not making an assertion. It's on you to prove that your assertion is correct, and you have nothing more than your opinion backing you up.
        RobertRoberts 4y ago