7 ms·

Pinker vs. the AAAS on the politicization of climate change

33 points by agomez314 4y ago

PaulHoule 4y ago
Pinker kinda wrecked his own credibility back in the oughts. https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5pn87/free-speech-crusader-steven-pinker-blocking-anyone-mentioning-his-epstein-ties https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5pn87/free-speech-crusader-... We all know who started the politicization of climate change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil_climate_change_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil_climate_change_cont... It's unfortunate that the position "I'm OK, You're OK, They're not OK" sells so well politically. I just imagine 30,000 years from now people have built a Dyson Sphere and evolved considerably and there is still some group of "people" who are talking incessantly about how awful it was that Harvard was "woke" even though everybody else has long forgotten what Harvard was.
- ch4s3 4y ago
  > Pinker kinda wrecked his own credibility back in the oughts. I have no particular interest in Pinker, but after reading that article I fail to see the issue. It seems like he was being harassed on the basis of having been in the same room as Epstein a few times. I can see blocking people mentioning you and such a disreputable person as a not totally unreasonable response.
  - PaulHoule 4y ago
    The issue I have with Pinker is that he comes to sweeping moral conclusions about the prospects of humanity. Your legitimacy for doing that comes out of your own moral leadership, not just having a prestigious position. I can forgive Pinker (as a person) for hanging out with immoral people like Dershowitz. But, what would be a better way to prove you are a terrible judge of character? At the same time I'd say that he should keep his mouth shut about most of what he talks about because he's discredited himself. As I see it there is a nihlism and self-centeredness in all of Pinker's post-2000 work such that the stuff he wrote for Epstein's defense is consistent with the general trend as opposed to being an exception. Sure, his consistent moral position is to tell the World Economic Forum what it wants to hear when they want to hear it. (E.g. if mainstream culture was Jonestown, Pinker would be Jim Jones.)
    - ch4s3 4y ago
      I was only commenting on the Vice article.
    - akhmatova 4y ago
      The issue I have with Pinker is that he comes to sweeping moral conclusions about the prospects of humanity. Fine, whatever, but that's not what you were alluding to up above vis-a-vis Pinker and Epstein. Which was basically a smear.
      - adultSwim 4y ago
        Steven Pinker flew on the Lolita Express and aided in Epstein's 2007 legal defense.
        akhmatova 4y ago
        Steven Pinker flew on the Lolita Express Back in 2002, long before the statutory rape findings were widely known -- if the were known at all beyond a select circle, which this (given the voluminous roster of LE ridership) by itself does not prove that Pinker was a part of. aided in Epstein's 2007 legal defense. Apparently unknowingly. Again, unless you have information that would indicate otherwise.
        adultSwim 4y ago
        Who did he think the girls on the plane were?
        akhmatova 4y ago
        So you "know" there were girls on the plane he was on. How exactly? Were you on the plane yourself?
        adultSwim 4y ago
        I'll meet you in the middle and say that the perpetrators of these crimes have not been exhaustively investigated and exposed.
JaimeThompson 4y ago
“white people use their membership in a dominant group to assert political, cultural, and economic power over those outside that group.” That is a good way to describe legacy admissions policies at major universities.
woliveirajr 4y ago
> That politicization, he feels—and I agree—is a strong impediment to the objectivity needed to solve any scientific problem. Climate change is one such problem, and its solution is hampered by tribalism. When politicization touchs science we don't get "politics" with a pinch of science. We get science with too much politics. Science with too much ego is politics. With some ego, is science. Without ego, is the beauty nature, pure comprehension and knowledge.
onesafari 4y ago
Pinker's response reflects the majority of scientists and rational thinkers, but appears to be in the minority because of widespread preference falsification*. That he's so well credentialed and respected may trigger a preference cascade. Then we can get back to science. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preference_falsification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preference_falsification
- JohnHaugeland 4y ago
  Pinker's response in no way reflects scientists or "rational thinkers." This is just a man appealing to pleas so as to ignore the roaring fire in front of him.
  - thanhdotr 4y ago
    Can you elaborate your point? "This is just a man appealing to pleas so as to ignore the roaring fire in front of him."
red7 4y ago
JohnHaugeland 4y ago
This is denial ism held high on name recognition

33 points by agomez314 4y ago

Pinker kinda wrecked his own credibility back in the oughts. https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5pn87/free-speech-crusader-steven-pinker-blocking-anyone-mentioning-his-epstein-ties https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5pn87/free-speech-crusader-... We all know who started the politicization of climate change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil_climate_change_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil_climate_change_cont... It's unfortunate that the position "I'm OK, You're OK, They're not OK" sells so well politically. I just imagine 30,000 years from now people have built a Dyson Sphere and evolved considerably and there is still some group of "people" who are talking incessantly about how awful it was that Harvard was "woke" even though everybody else has long forgotten what Harvard was.

ch4s3 4y ago
> Pinker kinda wrecked his own credibility back in the oughts. I have no particular interest in Pinker, but after reading that article I fail to see the issue. It seems like he was being harassed on the basis of having been in the same room as Epstein a few times. I can see blocking people mentioning you and such a disreputable person as a not totally unreasonable response.
- PaulHoule 4y ago
  The issue I have with Pinker is that he comes to sweeping moral conclusions about the prospects of humanity. Your legitimacy for doing that comes out of your own moral leadership, not just having a prestigious position. I can forgive Pinker (as a person) for hanging out with immoral people like Dershowitz. But, what would be a better way to prove you are a terrible judge of character? At the same time I'd say that he should keep his mouth shut about most of what he talks about because he's discredited himself. As I see it there is a nihlism and self-centeredness in all of Pinker's post-2000 work such that the stuff he wrote for Epstein's defense is consistent with the general trend as opposed to being an exception. Sure, his consistent moral position is to tell the World Economic Forum what it wants to hear when they want to hear it. (E.g. if mainstream culture was Jonestown, Pinker would be Jim Jones.)
  - ch4s3 4y ago
    I was only commenting on the Vice article.
  - akhmatova 4y ago
    The issue I have with Pinker is that he comes to sweeping moral conclusions about the prospects of humanity. Fine, whatever, but that's not what you were alluding to up above vis-a-vis Pinker and Epstein. Which was basically a smear.
    - adultSwim 4y ago
      Steven Pinker flew on the Lolita Express and aided in Epstein's 2007 legal defense.
      - akhmatova 4y ago
        Steven Pinker flew on the Lolita Express Back in 2002, long before the statutory rape findings were widely known -- if the were known at all beyond a select circle, which this (given the voluminous roster of LE ridership) by itself does not prove that Pinker was a part of. aided in Epstein's 2007 legal defense. Apparently unknowingly. Again, unless you have information that would indicate otherwise.
        adultSwim 4y ago
        Who did he think the girls on the plane were?
        akhmatova 4y ago
        So you "know" there were girls on the plane he was on. How exactly? Were you on the plane yourself?
        adultSwim 4y ago
        I'll meet you in the middle and say that the perpetrators of these crimes have not been exhaustively investigated and exposed.

JaimeThompson 4y ago

“white people use their membership in a dominant group to assert political, cultural, and economic power over those outside that group.” That is a good way to describe legacy admissions policies at major universities.

woliveirajr 4y ago

> That politicization, he feels—and I agree—is a strong impediment to the objectivity needed to solve any scientific problem. Climate change is one such problem, and its solution is hampered by tribalism. When politicization touchs science we don't get "politics" with a pinch of science. We get science with too much politics. Science with too much ego is politics. With some ego, is science. Without ego, is the beauty nature, pure comprehension and knowledge.

onesafari 4y ago

Pinker's response reflects the majority of scientists and rational thinkers, but appears to be in the minority because of widespread preference falsification*. That he's so well credentialed and respected may trigger a preference cascade. Then we can get back to science. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preference_falsification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preference_falsification

JohnHaugeland 4y ago
Pinker's response in no way reflects scientists or "rational thinkers." This is just a man appealing to pleas so as to ignore the roaring fire in front of him.
- thanhdotr 4y ago
  Can you elaborate your point? "This is just a man appealing to pleas so as to ignore the roaring fire in front of him."

red7 4y ago

JohnHaugeland 4y ago

This is denial ism held high on name recognition