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While this is true for the communities (people) themselves, a lot of us in Hungary who love EU learned languages and moved west, and practically lost our right

While this is true for the communities (people) themselves, a lot of us in Hungary who love EU learned languages and moved west, and practically lost our right to vote because of how the voting system is designed, even though we are still Hungarians officially. This allowed Orban to get authoritian power that is now undefeatable.

leadingthenet 5y ago
> and practically lost our right to vote because of how the voting system is designed Yet, I voted (abroad) in the last elections just fine? You do have to register early nowadays, whereas it used to be trivial to cast a vote previously, but I'm genuinely unsure what you base a claim such as "we practically lost our right to vote" on. In addition, several democratic countries disallow voting for expatriates (e.g. Ireland de jure / Israel de facto). > This allowed Orban to get authoritian power that is now undefeatable. At no point during the last few decades have elections been swayed by votes cast outside of Hungary.
- xiphias2 5y ago
  Good for you, but even Orban supporters accept that the voting system is biased, they just like it that way. As for me voting would have been too hard, so I donated money for the opposition to buy ads, but of course it was no match for the advertising budget Fidesz has at this point.
  - leadingthenet 5y ago
    That may be, but now you’ve changed your argument from an obviously ridiculous claim such as “we practically lost our right to vote” to the vastly less fatalistic (and much more accurate) “the system advantages the incumbent”. That’s fine, and I agree it’s an issue, but maybe tone it down a bit for next time. I’m used to this tone from Hungarians both online and in real life, but I’d rather not allow such false impressions to seep into the wider discourse. There’s enough “Poles and Hungarians bad” narratives going around without us having to add fuel to the fire.
    - xiphias2 5y ago
      I don't see any difference. When the same person is leading for 16 years from millions of eligible people, it's not because of his ability, but because of how he took away voting rights in practice. My prediction is that the ,,voted'' PM of Hungary will be the same in 4 years. If you are right, it will probably change.
      - leadingthenet 5y ago
        You're a master at talking past people, which is remarkably similar to this Orbán person you seem to dislike so much, now that I think about it. I genuinely can't tell if you're just arguing dishonestly, or if you're so wrapped in your little tribal bubble you can't even imagine some nuance being added to the discussion. In either case, I'm out. > If you are right, it will probably change. I literally never made that argument.
    - mrtranscendence 5y ago
      > There’s enough “Poles and Hungarians bad” narratives going around without us having to add fuel to the fire. I mean, you did vote in Orbán, a demonstrably terrible human being, for many years running. It’s hardly a better look for the citizens of Hungary if that wasn’t due to disenfranchisement.
      - leadingthenet 5y ago
        Who says I voted Orbán? I'm pretty sure I never mentioned such a thing. The level of discourse some of you engage in is pathetic, this is honestly /r/politics levels of gaslighting.
        panqueque 5y ago
        Assuming you're aware of the plural "you", you (singular) is doing the gaslighting here.
        leadingthenet 5y ago
riffraff 5y ago
I meant the institutions named "European Community Something": ECSC (coal and steal), Euratom, European Economic Community. Those preceded the EU, but were already intended to end up in tighter and tighter integration.

leadingthenet 5y ago

> and practically lost our right to vote because of how the voting system is designed Yet, I voted (abroad) in the last elections just fine? You do have to register early nowadays, whereas it used to be trivial to cast a vote previously, but I'm genuinely unsure what you base a claim such as "we practically lost our right to vote" on. In addition, several democratic countries disallow voting for expatriates (e.g. Ireland de jure / Israel de facto). > This allowed Orban to get authoritian power that is now undefeatable. At no point during the last few decades have elections been swayed by votes cast outside of Hungary.

xiphias2 5y ago
Good for you, but even Orban supporters accept that the voting system is biased, they just like it that way. As for me voting would have been too hard, so I donated money for the opposition to buy ads, but of course it was no match for the advertising budget Fidesz has at this point.
- leadingthenet 5y ago
  That may be, but now you’ve changed your argument from an obviously ridiculous claim such as “we practically lost our right to vote” to the vastly less fatalistic (and much more accurate) “the system advantages the incumbent”. That’s fine, and I agree it’s an issue, but maybe tone it down a bit for next time. I’m used to this tone from Hungarians both online and in real life, but I’d rather not allow such false impressions to seep into the wider discourse. There’s enough “Poles and Hungarians bad” narratives going around without us having to add fuel to the fire.
  - xiphias2 5y ago
    I don't see any difference. When the same person is leading for 16 years from millions of eligible people, it's not because of his ability, but because of how he took away voting rights in practice. My prediction is that the ,,voted'' PM of Hungary will be the same in 4 years. If you are right, it will probably change.
    - leadingthenet 5y ago
      You're a master at talking past people, which is remarkably similar to this Orbán person you seem to dislike so much, now that I think about it. I genuinely can't tell if you're just arguing dishonestly, or if you're so wrapped in your little tribal bubble you can't even imagine some nuance being added to the discussion. In either case, I'm out. > If you are right, it will probably change. I literally never made that argument.
  - mrtranscendence 5y ago
    > There’s enough “Poles and Hungarians bad” narratives going around without us having to add fuel to the fire. I mean, you did vote in Orbán, a demonstrably terrible human being, for many years running. It’s hardly a better look for the citizens of Hungary if that wasn’t due to disenfranchisement.
    - leadingthenet 5y ago
      Who says I voted Orbán? I'm pretty sure I never mentioned such a thing. The level of discourse some of you engage in is pathetic, this is honestly /r/politics levels of gaslighting.
      - panqueque 5y ago
        Assuming you're aware of the plural "you", you (singular) is doing the gaslighting here.
        leadingthenet 5y ago

riffraff 5y ago

I meant the institutions named "European Community Something": ECSC (coal and steal), Euratom, European Economic Community. Those preceded the EU, but were already intended to end up in tighter and tighter integration.