5 ms·

Europe does this much better. It's not so difficult to find yourself on a quieter, greener path just on your way to work. The countryside has a network of footp

by nicbou 5y ago

Europe does this much better. It's not so difficult to find yourself on a quieter, greener path just on your way to work. The countryside has a network of footpaths that connect everything. Wherever I am in Europe, I can count on a quiet evening walk. Berlin is outstanding for this. Wherever you are, it's easy to escape loud traffic and sit in a green, public space. Some have cafés and Biergarten in them. I find returning to Canada difficult because there is no way to escape loud roads. There's no path along the fields, forests or rivers. If you want to walk in nature, you have to drive to it.

bakuninsbart 5y ago
Berlin is better than most other places I've lived, but there is still so much room to improve. In my (sub-)district, pedestrians, cyclists, bars and trees share around 30% of the space on the street, while an additional 40% is parking and the last 30% is driving. The thing is, only around 35% of households here even own a car, and the vast majority of those probably just have it as a convenience. Public transport is quite good, and Berlin is super flat, so also really good for cycling. Very slowly things are moving in the right direction, but it is a constant fight against a loud minority and old local and federal rules favoring cars above all.
- nicbou 5y ago
  Like you said, things are improving. There is a slow move towards wide bike lanes and pedestrianised neighborhoods. I love where things are going!
- peoplefromibiza 5y ago
  I will throw Rome here, often overlooked when talking about this stuff, but Rome has the widest green area in Europe, parks, gardens, reserves, green areas in general cover more than 65% of the total surface, totaling 85,000 hectares (~850 km2). In Berlin in comparison only 30% of the city area is green spaces and woodland, totaling ~260km2. One of the reasons why Berlin population is 1.2 times larger than Rome, even though the surface of the city is only 70% of the Italian Capitol.
  - emj 5y ago
    How was that calculated; populations and areas of cities are often calculated in very different ways. You have to show these things on a map and describe why you choose what area and how the population number was calculated. Just "what is a park" differs between cities, even what is a parking space is different. E.g. cars needs a lot of room around them on motorways, that areas is not always counted as "motorway" but can be counted as "green space" in some papers. I have not seen ANY good examples of comparisions between cities, but I know these problems comes up alot when we discuss cities here on HN.
    - peoplefromibiza 5y ago
      I know a lot of people are skeptic about this, but I was surprised as well when I discovered how green Rome is. As a Roman, I also thought that Paris or Berlin were greener or bigger, they are not. > You have to show these things on a map Here it is Berlin and Rome, same zoom level on Google maps https://imgur.com/WU3dWEJ https://imgur.com/WU3dWEJ I've highlighted on the left the area that is actually Rome's territory, Google maps only highlights the area inside the "Grande raccordo anulare" [1], but the city of Rome extends much farther than that, also the area on the beach (the one called Ostia) is actually part of the city even though it is disconnected from it. That's Rome, the city, then there's the Metropolitan City of Rome Capital [2], which is much larger and includes many smaller municipalities around it, which is in turn smaller than Rome metropolitan area [3] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_Raccordo_Anulare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_Raccordo_Anulare [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_City_of_Rome_Capital https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_City_of_Rome_Capi... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_metropolitan_area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_metropolitan_area
devchix 5y ago
I like the London practice of having a small square of park in the center among the homes. Although it seems a practice of wealthier urban areas, the parks are gated, the home owners have a key and they pay for the upkeep. I don't know how common this is. NYC Central Park is beautiful and vast, but sometimes I wonder if cities need more smaller little parks. There's a lovely lawn behind Rodin's house in Paris where people go and stretch out, tall trees on the perimeter and open space, it's very beautiful and relaxing to view. Parks and gardens seem an afterthoughts in American urban planning. The National and state parks are gems but not accessible near the cities. Edited to add, there's a very good Economist article about building miniature forests in cities, I can't find it right now but here's an article that was referenced: https://daily.jstor.org/the-miyawaki-method-a-better-way-to-build-forests/ https://daily.jstor.org/the-miyawaki-method-a-better-way-to-... Somebody mentioned Rome downstream, one more thing I love about Rome, all the public fountain water is potable. There's something so awesome about going to the fountain and getting water that you can drink. (Native Romans, don't crush my dreams by telling me I was a dumb tourist and who knows what I drank when I took my chances with the public fountains.)
- alistairSH 5y ago
  Those gardens in London are privately owned and maintained. And far from ubiquitous - they’re mostly in wealthy areas. It’s nice that they exist. But it’s not so nice that they’re a perk for the rich and not accessible by an average resident. And AFAIK, there is no planning rule that requires they be added with new (re-)development. Only maintaining what’s there.
  - kaybe 5y ago
    As long as you can look into it from the street you'll have some benefit at least. Walking along other people's gardens can be quite relaxing too as long as high walls are not allowed.
    - alistairSH 5y ago
      There’s a mix - some are walled off, some internal to housing (interior of a block), some just fenced off. The Eaton Square viewed on Google Maps shows a variety. The main square is shoulder-high iron fencing. But many blocks have walked or internal gardens.
mathematicaster 5y ago
European expat here. My experience on the Canadian west coast is quiet the opposite.
elevenoh 5y ago
Downtown vancouver near stanley park might be for you :)

by nicbou 5y ago

bakuninsbart 5y ago

Berlin is better than most other places I've lived, but there is still so much room to improve. In my (sub-)district, pedestrians, cyclists, bars and trees share around 30% of the space on the street, while an additional 40% is parking and the last 30% is driving. The thing is, only around 35% of households here even own a car, and the vast majority of those probably just have it as a convenience. Public transport is quite good, and Berlin is super flat, so also really good for cycling. Very slowly things are moving in the right direction, but it is a constant fight against a loud minority and old local and federal rules favoring cars above all.

nicbou 5y ago
Like you said, things are improving. There is a slow move towards wide bike lanes and pedestrianised neighborhoods. I love where things are going!
peoplefromibiza 5y ago
I will throw Rome here, often overlooked when talking about this stuff, but Rome has the widest green area in Europe, parks, gardens, reserves, green areas in general cover more than 65% of the total surface, totaling 85,000 hectares (~850 km2). In Berlin in comparison only 30% of the city area is green spaces and woodland, totaling ~260km2. One of the reasons why Berlin population is 1.2 times larger than Rome, even though the surface of the city is only 70% of the Italian Capitol.
- emj 5y ago
  How was that calculated; populations and areas of cities are often calculated in very different ways. You have to show these things on a map and describe why you choose what area and how the population number was calculated. Just "what is a park" differs between cities, even what is a parking space is different. E.g. cars needs a lot of room around them on motorways, that areas is not always counted as "motorway" but can be counted as "green space" in some papers. I have not seen ANY good examples of comparisions between cities, but I know these problems comes up alot when we discuss cities here on HN.
  - peoplefromibiza 5y ago
    I know a lot of people are skeptic about this, but I was surprised as well when I discovered how green Rome is. As a Roman, I also thought that Paris or Berlin were greener or bigger, they are not. > You have to show these things on a map Here it is Berlin and Rome, same zoom level on Google maps https://imgur.com/WU3dWEJ https://imgur.com/WU3dWEJ I've highlighted on the left the area that is actually Rome's territory, Google maps only highlights the area inside the "Grande raccordo anulare" [1], but the city of Rome extends much farther than that, also the area on the beach (the one called Ostia) is actually part of the city even though it is disconnected from it. That's Rome, the city, then there's the Metropolitan City of Rome Capital [2], which is much larger and includes many smaller municipalities around it, which is in turn smaller than Rome metropolitan area [3] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_Raccordo_Anulare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_Raccordo_Anulare [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_City_of_Rome_Capital https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_City_of_Rome_Capi... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_metropolitan_area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_metropolitan_area

devchix 5y ago

I like the London practice of having a small square of park in the center among the homes. Although it seems a practice of wealthier urban areas, the parks are gated, the home owners have a key and they pay for the upkeep. I don't know how common this is. NYC Central Park is beautiful and vast, but sometimes I wonder if cities need more smaller little parks. There's a lovely lawn behind Rodin's house in Paris where people go and stretch out, tall trees on the perimeter and open space, it's very beautiful and relaxing to view. Parks and gardens seem an afterthoughts in American urban planning. The National and state parks are gems but not accessible near the cities. Edited to add, there's a very good Economist article about building miniature forests in cities, I can't find it right now but here's an article that was referenced: https://daily.jstor.org/the-miyawaki-method-a-better-way-to-build-forests/ https://daily.jstor.org/the-miyawaki-method-a-better-way-to-... Somebody mentioned Rome downstream, one more thing I love about Rome, all the public fountain water is potable. There's something so awesome about going to the fountain and getting water that you can drink. (Native Romans, don't crush my dreams by telling me I was a dumb tourist and who knows what I drank when I took my chances with the public fountains.)

alistairSH 5y ago
Those gardens in London are privately owned and maintained. And far from ubiquitous - they’re mostly in wealthy areas. It’s nice that they exist. But it’s not so nice that they’re a perk for the rich and not accessible by an average resident. And AFAIK, there is no planning rule that requires they be added with new (re-)development. Only maintaining what’s there.
- kaybe 5y ago
  As long as you can look into it from the street you'll have some benefit at least. Walking along other people's gardens can be quite relaxing too as long as high walls are not allowed.
  - alistairSH 5y ago
    There’s a mix - some are walled off, some internal to housing (interior of a block), some just fenced off. The Eaton Square viewed on Google Maps shows a variety. The main square is shoulder-high iron fencing. But many blocks have walked or internal gardens.

mathematicaster 5y ago

European expat here. My experience on the Canadian west coast is quiet the opposite.

elevenoh 5y ago

Downtown vancouver near stanley park might be for you :)