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> These abortion providers are forgetting an important component of having an at-home abortion, Nobody is forgetting anything. These healthcare providers are p

by wahern 5y ago

> These abortion providers are forgetting an important component of having an at-home abortion, Nobody is forgetting anything. These healthcare providers are pursuing a harm minimization strategy in the face of laws they believe will deter women from engaging with healthcare professionals. Anyhow, many other European countries have long heavily relied on at-home, pharmaceutical abortifacients precisely because (and this is probably surprising to most Americans) most European countries actually have more restrictive laws regarding abortion than those to which the majority of the U.S. population are subject--i.e. relative to laws in California, Illinois, Massachusetts, New York, etc. So the track record on outcomes, risks, etc is quite clear from foreign experiences alone, not to mention the domestic record.

encryptluks2 5y ago
No, the risks is not clear from foreign experience alone: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-of-psychiatry/article/abortion-and-mental-health-quantitative-synthesis-and-analysis-of-research-published-19952009/E8D556AAE1C1D2F0F8B060B28BEE6C3D https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6207970/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6207970/
- olsonjeffery 5y ago
  Still failing to refute the central point: more harm is minimized by preventing an unwanted birth via abortion than via “caring about their mental health.” Rhetorically, everyone recognizes that you’re just moving the goalposts by providing one onerous requirement after another.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    That isn't my point here. The point is the critical need for mental health services to help some women deal with having an at-home abortion. It can be trauma inducing for some women. You can't pretend it simply doesn't exist when studies clearly indicate otherwise and then simultaneously say others are shifting the goal posts when you are doing just that.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
NotPractical 4y ago
> (and this is probably surprising to most Americans) most European countries actually have more restrictive laws regarding abortion than those to which the majority of the U.S. population are subject Not sure this is a fair assessment. It's true if you measure "restrictiveness" by number of weeks up until it's no longer allowed. In most European countries, 12 weeks is the limit for on-demand abortions (which aligns with the 11 week limit before which abortion pills can be safely and effectively used). [1] However, there are usually exceptions that allow abortions under certain circumstances after 12 weeks, and in many of these countries, abortion is covered under tax-funded healthcare and is offered free of charge. Meanwhile, in the US, the only federal-level abortion ruling (Roe v. Wade) will soon be overturned. 13 states already have laws on the books that will completely ban abortions in all cases as soon as that happens. [2] And even while Roe was in effect, Texas still somehow managed to implement a ~6 week abortion ban (which is far more restrictive than almost every European country). [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2021/us-abortion-laws-worldwide/#:~:text=Abortion%20broadly%20legal https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2021/us-abo... [2] https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/abortion-policy-absence-roe https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/abortion-pol...

by wahern 5y ago

encryptluks2 5y ago

No, the risks is not clear from foreign experience alone: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-of-psychiatry/article/abortion-and-mental-health-quantitative-synthesis-and-analysis-of-research-published-19952009/E8D556AAE1C1D2F0F8B060B28BEE6C3D https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6207970/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6207970/

olsonjeffery 5y ago
Still failing to refute the central point: more harm is minimized by preventing an unwanted birth via abortion than via “caring about their mental health.” Rhetorically, everyone recognizes that you’re just moving the goalposts by providing one onerous requirement after another.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  That isn't my point here. The point is the critical need for mental health services to help some women deal with having an at-home abortion. It can be trauma inducing for some women. You can't pretend it simply doesn't exist when studies clearly indicate otherwise and then simultaneously say others are shifting the goal posts when you are doing just that.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

NotPractical 4y ago

> (and this is probably surprising to most Americans) most European countries actually have more restrictive laws regarding abortion than those to which the majority of the U.S. population are subject Not sure this is a fair assessment. It's true if you measure "restrictiveness" by number of weeks up until it's no longer allowed. In most European countries, 12 weeks is the limit for on-demand abortions (which aligns with the 11 week limit before which abortion pills can be safely and effectively used). [1] However, there are usually exceptions that allow abortions under certain circumstances after 12 weeks, and in many of these countries, abortion is covered under tax-funded healthcare and is offered free of charge. Meanwhile, in the US, the only federal-level abortion ruling (Roe v. Wade) will soon be overturned. 13 states already have laws on the books that will completely ban abortions in all cases as soon as that happens. [2] And even while Roe was in effect, Texas still somehow managed to implement a ~6 week abortion ban (which is far more restrictive than almost every European country). [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2021/us-abortion-laws-worldwide/#:~:text=Abortion%20broadly%20legal https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2021/us-abo... [2] https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/abortion-policy-absence-roe https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/abortion-pol...