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Whenever we start sending people to jail for dying. Death happens... it's only a crime if someone intentionally caused it.

t-3 4y ago
Right, and if the miscarriage was caused by drinking, drugs, falling down the stairs? Who is to blame?
- TimTheTinker 4y ago
  Accidents happen. But if someone besides the woman herself can be legally proved to be at fault, I'd argue that person ought to be guilty before the law of anything between involuntary manslaughter to murder, depending on motive, premeditation, actions, and surrounding circumstances. To clarify my position further, I'm not entirely convinced a woman who intentionally aborts her own baby should be subject to legal review. Though I believe she's morally culpable for doing so, at least at present there are a lot of practical issues with enforcing such a law. That being said, it's very different if someone else can be shown to have caused the miscarriage (or abortion) to occur -- whether directly or indirectly. In the most extreme case, consider someone who pointed a loaded gun at a woman's pregnant belly, unprovoked, and fired it, causing the baby's death and injury to the woman. That person ought to be charged with 1 count of first-degree murder and 1 count of aggravated assault, at minimum.
  - TimTheTinker 4y ago
    To be clear, what I'm advocating is the equivalent of outlawing assisted suicide alongside murder/manslaughter/etc - all are morally wrong because they take a life. If someone wants to commit suicide, the law can't do anything about it - they're morally culpable before God for that. But if someone helps them, that ought to be against the law. If someone helps a woman kill her baby (whether through providing abortifacient drugs, performing an abortion, etc.), that also ought to be against the law. Maybe I'm equivocating by saying maybe we shouldn't create a law against a woman taking action to terminate her own pregnancy. And I probably would change my mind if I became convinced that such a law could be enforced justly without subjecting grieving victims of miscarriages to a miscarriage of justice.

t-3 4y ago

Right, and if the miscarriage was caused by drinking, drugs, falling down the stairs? Who is to blame?

TimTheTinker 4y ago
Accidents happen. But if someone besides the woman herself can be legally proved to be at fault, I'd argue that person ought to be guilty before the law of anything between involuntary manslaughter to murder, depending on motive, premeditation, actions, and surrounding circumstances. To clarify my position further, I'm not entirely convinced a woman who intentionally aborts her own baby should be subject to legal review. Though I believe she's morally culpable for doing so, at least at present there are a lot of practical issues with enforcing such a law. That being said, it's very different if someone else can be shown to have caused the miscarriage (or abortion) to occur -- whether directly or indirectly. In the most extreme case, consider someone who pointed a loaded gun at a woman's pregnant belly, unprovoked, and fired it, causing the baby's death and injury to the woman. That person ought to be charged with 1 count of first-degree murder and 1 count of aggravated assault, at minimum.
- TimTheTinker 4y ago
  To be clear, what I'm advocating is the equivalent of outlawing assisted suicide alongside murder/manslaughter/etc - all are morally wrong because they take a life. If someone wants to commit suicide, the law can't do anything about it - they're morally culpable before God for that. But if someone helps them, that ought to be against the law. If someone helps a woman kill her baby (whether through providing abortifacient drugs, performing an abortion, etc.), that also ought to be against the law. Maybe I'm equivocating by saying maybe we shouldn't create a law against a woman taking action to terminate her own pregnancy. And I probably would change my mind if I became convinced that such a law could be enforced justly without subjecting grieving victims of miscarriages to a miscarriage of justice.