4 ms·

> jQuery I still see it on resumes today. > that google framework Seriously, Google stuff is infamous for being smothered by Google itself, what's your point

by nawgz 4y ago

> jQuery I still see it on resumes today. > that google framework Seriously, Google stuff is infamous for being smothered by Google itself, what's your point > nobody cares anymore Literally the only non-Google example you could think of is still popular. But jQuery wasn't a graceful idea with a strong implementation, it was a wrapper to alleviate the pain of browser APIs. React is a wrapper to alleviate the pain of JS. Thus my original claim: "[a] world where React isn’t used and remembered is one where the web isn’t based on the same primitives". I don't see that happening soon.

metadat 4y ago
I'm not a frontend expert, please forgive me.
thayne 4y ago
Web components might change those primatives. It is still pretty early days, but I would be surpriaed if react isn't replaced either by something built on web components, or maybe even native web components.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  > It is still pretty early days Web components were proposed 11 years ago. Widely available for at least six. When will it stop being "early days"? Now all the air in browser development has been sucked out of the room by them. Instead of actually moving the web forward browsers are busy patching holes and problems created by web components because they are horrendously badly designed. And they still have an issue list as long as the equator. Any framework in such a state in "early days" would be laughed out of the room.
  - thayne 4y ago
    > widely available for at least six Custom Elements weren't available until 2018. So unless you are referring to the chrome-only experimental v0 version, I don't think you can say it has been widely available for more than 4. And there will likely be substantial improvements to it before it starts dominating web development.
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      > I don't think you can say it has been widely available for more than 4 Yes, my timeline was off. > And there will likely be substantial improvements to it before it starts dominating web development. I'm definitely veering away from my original statement, but here goes :) There won't be any substantial improvements in web components. It's painfully obvious how many shortcomings they have, and how many holes have to be patched before they can become actually useful. I mean, they had to come up with a whole new Javascript API just to make them participate in forms. And now their existence taints and poisons most other improvements to the platform. For example, Scoped CSS (which on its own would solve a huge chunk of what web components offer) now have to be twisted to accommodate web components, and will likely be a worse spec as a result. Chrome "developer advocates" will incessantly berate and gaslight other projects and frameworks, and will claim that web components are a success because companies with billions of dollars in revenue and thousands of developers use them to create a yet another avatar or breadcrumbs component. That... that is neither success nor a path towards any substantial improvement. "It's almost as if congealing 2010-era best practices in the platform before we'd finished exploring this territory was a mistake" [1] And the future is likely to be component-less [2] If the tens of millions of dollars that Google alone has poured into Web Components had gone into something meaningful like https://open-ui.org https://open-ui.org we'd have a significantly better and a substantially more future-proof web. Alas. [1] https://twitter.com/Rich_Harris/status/1513668040784814084 https://twitter.com/Rich_Harris/status/1513668040784814084 [2] https://dev.to/this-is-learning/components-are-pure-overhead-hpm https://dev.to/this-is-learning/components-are-pure-overhead...

by nawgz 4y ago

metadat 4y ago

I'm not a frontend expert, please forgive me.

thayne 4y ago

Web components might change those primatives. It is still pretty early days, but I would be surpriaed if react isn't replaced either by something built on web components, or maybe even native web components.

dmitriid 4y ago
> It is still pretty early days Web components were proposed 11 years ago. Widely available for at least six. When will it stop being "early days"? Now all the air in browser development has been sucked out of the room by them. Instead of actually moving the web forward browsers are busy patching holes and problems created by web components because they are horrendously badly designed. And they still have an issue list as long as the equator. Any framework in such a state in "early days" would be laughed out of the room.
- thayne 4y ago
  > widely available for at least six Custom Elements weren't available until 2018. So unless you are referring to the chrome-only experimental v0 version, I don't think you can say it has been widely available for more than 4. And there will likely be substantial improvements to it before it starts dominating web development.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    > I don't think you can say it has been widely available for more than 4 Yes, my timeline was off. > And there will likely be substantial improvements to it before it starts dominating web development. I'm definitely veering away from my original statement, but here goes :) There won't be any substantial improvements in web components. It's painfully obvious how many shortcomings they have, and how many holes have to be patched before they can become actually useful. I mean, they had to come up with a whole new Javascript API just to make them participate in forms. And now their existence taints and poisons most other improvements to the platform. For example, Scoped CSS (which on its own would solve a huge chunk of what web components offer) now have to be twisted to accommodate web components, and will likely be a worse spec as a result. Chrome "developer advocates" will incessantly berate and gaslight other projects and frameworks, and will claim that web components are a success because companies with billions of dollars in revenue and thousands of developers use them to create a yet another avatar or breadcrumbs component. That... that is neither success nor a path towards any substantial improvement. "It's almost as if congealing 2010-era best practices in the platform before we'd finished exploring this territory was a mistake" [1] And the future is likely to be component-less [2] If the tens of millions of dollars that Google alone has poured into Web Components had gone into something meaningful like https://open-ui.org https://open-ui.org we'd have a significantly better and a substantially more future-proof web. Alas. [1] https://twitter.com/Rich_Harris/status/1513668040784814084 https://twitter.com/Rich_Harris/status/1513668040784814084 [2] https://dev.to/this-is-learning/components-are-pure-overhead-hpm https://dev.to/this-is-learning/components-are-pure-overhead...