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That’s a pretty funny stance. The library has a gigantic developer share and is supported by a tech giant. A world where React isn’t used and remembered is one

by nawgz 4y ago

That’s a pretty funny stance. The library has a gigantic developer share and is supported by a tech giant. A world where React isn’t used and remembered is one where the web isn’t based on the same primitive. The idea of a thin layer on top of JS offering composition is not complex, and the execution by react is still trend setting. Remember when they introduced hooks and now tons of libraries have the same thing? That’s not because React is behind the times and possible to supplant as a small team

metadat 4y ago
> The library has a gigantic developer share.. So did jQuery, and that google framework used to create Gmail, what was it called? Oh yeah, nobody cares anymore because they're irrelevant in 2022.
- leodriesch 4y ago
  And jQuery is still used in lots of places without any problems AFAIK. Even if the React development team would stop the framework will for sure be around for a couple more years and receive at least security patches.
  - mst 4y ago
    I've worked on webapps that are part jquery, part classic angular, part react, and part angularjs. My opinion of each of those parts has been primarily down to the developers, not the underlying choice of framework. Things that work in production last.
  - metadat 4y ago
    jQuery has faded into the background, no longer interesting. React has too many sharp edges, it'll only be here until something shinier supercedes it.
    - sebmellen 4y ago
      What sharp edges? (This is an honest, curious question.) I don't find many sharp edges in day-to-day React work. I say this having once been a very strong proponent of framework-less frontends, before trying Vue, then Svelte, and then settling on React.
    - danachow 4y ago
      > jQuery has faded into the background, no longer interesting. It’s a mature, stable technology, still in wide use - and not really a competitor with react. That you claim it’s “no longer interesting” says more about your own preferences and ironically makes it sound that you are personally interested in the newest shiny fads - so I’m confused, what is your objection to react then? Angular isn’t exactly dead - and is a more apt comparison.
      - metadat 4y ago
        Never said I wasn't partial to shiny.
      - croes 4y ago
        What else do you need jQuery for? The most important parts are already included in the browser.
        steve_adams_86 4y ago
        Honestly I bet a significant portion of the code I have maintained (and even some I’ve written) was reinventing a wheel someone didn’t know existed. Not even out of a desire to solve a problem, but simply not realizing it was done already. I suspect people still reach for jquery for similar reasons. They know it makes complicated stuff work, it’s reliable, they don’t need to think about the specifics of the problems it solves… As a result, they’re less likely to discover that it’s no longer necessary in the first place. They’ll just keep using it.
        croes 4y ago
- nawgz 4y ago
  > jQuery I still see it on resumes today. > that google framework Seriously, Google stuff is infamous for being smothered by Google itself, what's your point > nobody cares anymore Literally the only non-Google example you could think of is still popular. But jQuery wasn't a graceful idea with a strong implementation, it was a wrapper to alleviate the pain of browser APIs. React is a wrapper to alleviate the pain of JS. Thus my original claim: "[a] world where React isn’t used and remembered is one where the web isn’t based on the same primitives". I don't see that happening soon.
  - metadat 4y ago
    I'm not a frontend expert, please forgive me.
  - thayne 4y ago
    Web components might change those primatives. It is still pretty early days, but I would be surpriaed if react isn't replaced either by something built on web components, or maybe even native web components.
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      > It is still pretty early days Web components were proposed 11 years ago. Widely available for at least six. When will it stop being "early days"? Now all the air in browser development has been sucked out of the room by them. Instead of actually moving the web forward browsers are busy patching holes and problems created by web components because they are horrendously badly designed. And they still have an issue list as long as the equator. Any framework in such a state in "early days" would be laughed out of the room.
      - thayne 4y ago
        > widely available for at least six Custom Elements weren't available until 2018. So unless you are referring to the chrome-only experimental v0 version, I don't think you can say it has been widely available for more than 4. And there will likely be substantial improvements to it before it starts dominating web development.
croes 4y ago
Applies the same to jQuery or Bootstrap?
- dntrkv 4y ago
  Just a friendly reminder that React is approaching a decade in life. There are no other competing frameworks that look to be taking it’s place. Not saying it will never go away, just that, maybe the front-end world has finally, significantly slowed down in churn. Things could always be better (Svelte is nice) but overall, React does what I need and I rarely curse at its design.
  - croes 4y ago
    How was the situation of jQuery 2014? Seems to me pretty similar. So in 2030, react will still be widely used but largely obsolete.
    - dntrkv 4y ago
      Not at all. From jQuery’s release to 2014 there were multiple phases of front-end frameworks. Backbone, Knockout, AngularJS, Ember. All of these had their time in the light during that phase. Most companies were already switched over to one of these frameworks. React was the new kid on the block at this time. You Don’t Need jQuery was out well before 2014. It’s also a bit difficult to compare jQuery since it’s a library that can linger in a codebase indefinitely. It’s not a framework. Also jQuery release date was 2006, so the equivalent year 9 would be 2015. By which point React migrations were in full swing. I wrote my first on the job React + Flux application in 2014 and then joined a new larger company in 2015 where we were making plans for a React migration.

by nawgz 4y ago

metadat 4y ago

> The library has a gigantic developer share.. So did jQuery, and that google framework used to create Gmail, what was it called? Oh yeah, nobody cares anymore because they're irrelevant in 2022.

leodriesch 4y ago
And jQuery is still used in lots of places without any problems AFAIK. Even if the React development team would stop the framework will for sure be around for a couple more years and receive at least security patches.
- mst 4y ago
  I've worked on webapps that are part jquery, part classic angular, part react, and part angularjs. My opinion of each of those parts has been primarily down to the developers, not the underlying choice of framework. Things that work in production last.
- metadat 4y ago
  jQuery has faded into the background, no longer interesting. React has too many sharp edges, it'll only be here until something shinier supercedes it.
  - sebmellen 4y ago
    What sharp edges? (This is an honest, curious question.) I don't find many sharp edges in day-to-day React work. I say this having once been a very strong proponent of framework-less frontends, before trying Vue, then Svelte, and then settling on React.
  - danachow 4y ago
    > jQuery has faded into the background, no longer interesting. It’s a mature, stable technology, still in wide use - and not really a competitor with react. That you claim it’s “no longer interesting” says more about your own preferences and ironically makes it sound that you are personally interested in the newest shiny fads - so I’m confused, what is your objection to react then? Angular isn’t exactly dead - and is a more apt comparison.
    - metadat 4y ago
      Never said I wasn't partial to shiny.
    - croes 4y ago
      What else do you need jQuery for? The most important parts are already included in the browser.
      - steve_adams_86 4y ago
        Honestly I bet a significant portion of the code I have maintained (and even some I’ve written) was reinventing a wheel someone didn’t know existed. Not even out of a desire to solve a problem, but simply not realizing it was done already. I suspect people still reach for jquery for similar reasons. They know it makes complicated stuff work, it’s reliable, they don’t need to think about the specifics of the problems it solves… As a result, they’re less likely to discover that it’s no longer necessary in the first place. They’ll just keep using it.
        croes 4y ago
nawgz 4y ago
> jQuery I still see it on resumes today. > that google framework Seriously, Google stuff is infamous for being smothered by Google itself, what's your point > nobody cares anymore Literally the only non-Google example you could think of is still popular. But jQuery wasn't a graceful idea with a strong implementation, it was a wrapper to alleviate the pain of browser APIs. React is a wrapper to alleviate the pain of JS. Thus my original claim: "[a] world where React isn’t used and remembered is one where the web isn’t based on the same primitives". I don't see that happening soon.
- metadat 4y ago
  I'm not a frontend expert, please forgive me.
- thayne 4y ago
  Web components might change those primatives. It is still pretty early days, but I would be surpriaed if react isn't replaced either by something built on web components, or maybe even native web components.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    > It is still pretty early days Web components were proposed 11 years ago. Widely available for at least six. When will it stop being "early days"? Now all the air in browser development has been sucked out of the room by them. Instead of actually moving the web forward browsers are busy patching holes and problems created by web components because they are horrendously badly designed. And they still have an issue list as long as the equator. Any framework in such a state in "early days" would be laughed out of the room.
    - thayne 4y ago
      > widely available for at least six Custom Elements weren't available until 2018. So unless you are referring to the chrome-only experimental v0 version, I don't think you can say it has been widely available for more than 4. And there will likely be substantial improvements to it before it starts dominating web development.

croes 4y ago

Applies the same to jQuery or Bootstrap?

dntrkv 4y ago
Just a friendly reminder that React is approaching a decade in life. There are no other competing frameworks that look to be taking it’s place. Not saying it will never go away, just that, maybe the front-end world has finally, significantly slowed down in churn. Things could always be better (Svelte is nice) but overall, React does what I need and I rarely curse at its design.
- croes 4y ago
  How was the situation of jQuery 2014? Seems to me pretty similar. So in 2030, react will still be widely used but largely obsolete.
  - dntrkv 4y ago
    Not at all. From jQuery’s release to 2014 there were multiple phases of front-end frameworks. Backbone, Knockout, AngularJS, Ember. All of these had their time in the light during that phase. Most companies were already switched over to one of these frameworks. React was the new kid on the block at this time. You Don’t Need jQuery was out well before 2014. It’s also a bit difficult to compare jQuery since it’s a library that can linger in a codebase indefinitely. It’s not a framework. Also jQuery release date was 2006, so the equivalent year 9 would be 2015. By which point React migrations were in full swing. I wrote my first on the job React + Flux application in 2014 and then joined a new larger company in 2015 where we were making plans for a React migration.