6 ms·

Yes you can. And I it's great for the wealthy. Forcing insurance on poor people is not right. The poor have a tough enough time just keeping their head above

Yes you can. And I it's great for the wealthy. Forcing insurance on poor people is not right. The poor have a tough enough time just keeping their head above homelessness. I have been required to pay for automotive insurance in California for approximately 20 years. (In CA mandatory insurance was required, but not mandatory forever. There is a weird legal difference. I white knuckled my college years while driving. I got lucky except onetime. A wealthy women slammed into me, and the minute she, or actually her lawyer husband, found out I didn't have insurance, I was putty in their hands. I paid $1000 for an 1982 Volvo bumper. It was the last of my student loan, but they had me. A call to DMV and I wouldn't be able to commute to my school.) Every year if I want to drive my old truck I needed to come up with $600.00 plus. Even with a perfect record since 15.5 years of age. I only can afford the minimum. I never made much money even as college graduate. I believe it's 15-30-5. (this means if slam into you and you are a vegetable; you will get $15,000 for injuries, and $5,000 for your Tesla. Great payday? If you have money you can go after my assets.). My point is it's not enough if we are being honest. The insurance industry loves these minimum mandates because they make billions off the poor, and middleclass. It's no wonder the insurance industry is always the number #1 Lobby group on every political fund. It's a racket, and I believe the bigger boys are colluding on rates, but can't prove it. "Buy the per mile insurance dude--you low income loser!" (1. Work out the low income insurance on a yearly basis, and it's not copasetic. Plus my old Toyota does not have a computer other than a rudimentary computer that was suspose to control the main plunger in the naturally aspirated carb that never really worked. Meaning there's no computer to plug a mileage indication in. So there's no per mile insurance I can get.) My point is mandated insurance is kind of a racket like this two year mandated Smog check, especially on vechicles that that we only use a few times per year, or under 1000 miles/per year. Rant Over.

justinator 4y ago
Car insurance seems like a good thing, I wonder why it's not subsidized for the very poor.
- argonaut 4y ago
  In California, at least, this exists: https://www.mylowcostauto.com/ https://www.mylowcostauto.com/
- throwaway2037 4y ago
  You wrote: <<Car insurance seems like a good thing>> In /some/ places, car insurance is required by law. How does it work in places where it is not required by law? At first thought, it appears more financially risky to drive! I guess that insurance would be even more expensive because it is more likely that the other side is insured.
  - justinator 4y ago
    >> In /some/ places, car insurance is required by law. Looking this up for the US (the country where I live), it seems that only NH doesn't require car insurance (ninja edit: Virginia as well). So for me, this is an interesting hypothetical, but not in a way that's a part of my reality as I do not live in either of those two states. >>At first thought, it appears more financially risky to drive! As someone who does not own a car, and does not drive (and is poor - very poor in HN standards as well as in the city I live in), I would like drivers that I share the road with to have insurance, rather than drive without insurance. Getting hit by an uninsured driver would be an absolute nightmare that I doubt I could even afford to bring to court.
    - jhugo 4y ago
      > Getting hit by an uninsured driver would be an absolute nightmare that I doubt I could even afford to bring to court. Not sure about the specifics of your car insurance but mine would cover that.
      - justinator 4y ago
        Hopefully you read the part of not owning a car and thus not having car insurance, so my non existent insurance would not.
rascul 4y ago
Root insurance uses your phone to track mileage instead of an OBD 2 dongle. This works for some people. https://www.joinroot.com/ https://www.joinroot.com/
post-it 4y ago
American insurance is so freaky. In Nova Scotia, everyone has minimum $1 million liability coverage. Everyone also has uninsured driver coverage, to cover them if they're hit by an uninsured driver.
- genewitch 4y ago
  if everyone has $1mm of insurance, why would anyone need uninsured coverage?
  - argonaut 4y ago
    Same reason you would need it in California. Some people don't have insurance, against the rules.
  - dfxm12 4y ago
    Just thinking off the top of my head here, there are more drivers then those registered in Nova Scotia. Not all of them have insurance. And I know how OP worded their post, but legally in my state you have to have insurance and despite that not every driver actually has insurance. It's not like anyone checks your insurance when you put the keys in the ignition...
  - PeterisP 4y ago
    The fact that everyone must have insurance does not mean that everyone has it. I mean, someone can cause an accident while not having a drivers license with a vehicle that's not street-legal. I'm not from Nova Scotia, but we have the same principle of mandatory insurance that has to cover also the accidents caused by people who are violating the requirements, which doesn't add much since the requirements are strictly enforced and violations are not that common, but mitigates those rare cases.
  - rfrey 4y ago
    People can drive illegally. Everyone has $1mm of insurance to legally drive.
scarface74 4y ago
So if you are poor and hit me in your car and you don’t have insurance, who is going to pay?
- genewitch 4y ago
  If you have uninsured/underinsured coverage (required by most auto loans): your insurance company. if you don't, you pay and/or sue the other driver.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Yes I realize that. But why should my insurance premiums go toward paying for someone else without car insurance? And what good is it trying to sue a “poor person”? While I never had to sue anyone, I looked into all of the hoops you have to jump through to collect damages when I was a landlord. It wasn’t worth the time or the effort.
    - FPGAhacker 4y ago
      > But why should my insurance premiums go toward paying for someone else without car insurance? Because that is what uninsured motorist insurance is for? If you buy flood insurance and it floods…
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > But why should my insurance premiums go toward paying for someone else without car insurance? They go to covering your risk of loss from damages causes by an actor from whom funds cannot be recovered. > And what good is it trying to sue a “poor person”? None, often, that's a large part of what you are insuring against by having uninsured driver insurance.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        And theoretically, how much more would insurance cost if states didn’t enforce every driver have insurance? As soon as you cancel insurance in my state, it gets reported.
chiph 4y ago
> Even with a perfect record since 15.5 years of age. Each driving session is statistically independent. The probability of you getting in a vehicle accident resets every time you get behind the wheel. The actual probability in each session varies based on things like your alertness level, vehicle condition, weather conditions, traffic levels, and so on. Something you can do to reduce your premiums is to shop around every 3-4 years. Most of the big-name insurance companies will start raising your rates around that time-frame because they assume the hassle of changing companies will keep you with them (i.e. human inertia). Another way is to drive "old man" cars. They're usually bigger & heavier, and perform better in accidents than something small & zippy. So they get lower rates because the chance of high medical bills is reduced.
- eru 4y ago
  > Each driving session is statistically independent. What's your evidence for that?
  - mellavora 4y ago
    not evidence, just basic statistical reasoning based on a set of necessary assumptions. I'm going to assume you are a reasonably competent driver. Also, that your driving routine is pretty stable. Now these assumptions may not apply to you, but they do apply in general, which is what you need to set insurance risk. Traffic density on your Wed commute to work is pretty stable week over week, with approximately the same percentage of over-tired or over-stressed drivers. Your driving ability has probably not significantly improved over the last 6 months. Thus, your chance of getting into an accident this morning on the way to work is independent of the chance of you having an accident next Wednesday. Likewise, your chance of getting into an accident this morning is independent of the chance of your co-worker who lives on the other side of town but has a similar risk profile to you of the commute (same type of roads, same distances). In general, in aggregate. Y
    - eru 4y ago
      I'm not sure. Someone who just had five accidents in the last three weeks might drive differently today, don't you think?

justinator 4y ago

Car insurance seems like a good thing, I wonder why it's not subsidized for the very poor.

argonaut 4y ago
In California, at least, this exists: https://www.mylowcostauto.com/ https://www.mylowcostauto.com/
throwaway2037 4y ago
You wrote: <<Car insurance seems like a good thing>> In /some/ places, car insurance is required by law. How does it work in places where it is not required by law? At first thought, it appears more financially risky to drive! I guess that insurance would be even more expensive because it is more likely that the other side is insured.
- justinator 4y ago
  >> In /some/ places, car insurance is required by law. Looking this up for the US (the country where I live), it seems that only NH doesn't require car insurance (ninja edit: Virginia as well). So for me, this is an interesting hypothetical, but not in a way that's a part of my reality as I do not live in either of those two states. >>At first thought, it appears more financially risky to drive! As someone who does not own a car, and does not drive (and is poor - very poor in HN standards as well as in the city I live in), I would like drivers that I share the road with to have insurance, rather than drive without insurance. Getting hit by an uninsured driver would be an absolute nightmare that I doubt I could even afford to bring to court.
  - jhugo 4y ago
    > Getting hit by an uninsured driver would be an absolute nightmare that I doubt I could even afford to bring to court. Not sure about the specifics of your car insurance but mine would cover that.
    - justinator 4y ago
      Hopefully you read the part of not owning a car and thus not having car insurance, so my non existent insurance would not.

rascul 4y ago

Root insurance uses your phone to track mileage instead of an OBD 2 dongle. This works for some people. https://www.joinroot.com/ https://www.joinroot.com/

post-it 4y ago

American insurance is so freaky. In Nova Scotia, everyone has minimum $1 million liability coverage. Everyone also has uninsured driver coverage, to cover them if they're hit by an uninsured driver.

genewitch 4y ago
if everyone has $1mm of insurance, why would anyone need uninsured coverage?
- argonaut 4y ago
  Same reason you would need it in California. Some people don't have insurance, against the rules.
- dfxm12 4y ago
  Just thinking off the top of my head here, there are more drivers then those registered in Nova Scotia. Not all of them have insurance. And I know how OP worded their post, but legally in my state you have to have insurance and despite that not every driver actually has insurance. It's not like anyone checks your insurance when you put the keys in the ignition...
- PeterisP 4y ago
  The fact that everyone must have insurance does not mean that everyone has it. I mean, someone can cause an accident while not having a drivers license with a vehicle that's not street-legal. I'm not from Nova Scotia, but we have the same principle of mandatory insurance that has to cover also the accidents caused by people who are violating the requirements, which doesn't add much since the requirements are strictly enforced and violations are not that common, but mitigates those rare cases.
- rfrey 4y ago
  People can drive illegally. Everyone has $1mm of insurance to legally drive.

scarface74 4y ago

So if you are poor and hit me in your car and you don’t have insurance, who is going to pay?

genewitch 4y ago
If you have uninsured/underinsured coverage (required by most auto loans): your insurance company. if you don't, you pay and/or sue the other driver.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Yes I realize that. But why should my insurance premiums go toward paying for someone else without car insurance? And what good is it trying to sue a “poor person”? While I never had to sue anyone, I looked into all of the hoops you have to jump through to collect damages when I was a landlord. It wasn’t worth the time or the effort.
  - FPGAhacker 4y ago
    > But why should my insurance premiums go toward paying for someone else without car insurance? Because that is what uninsured motorist insurance is for? If you buy flood insurance and it floods…
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > But why should my insurance premiums go toward paying for someone else without car insurance? They go to covering your risk of loss from damages causes by an actor from whom funds cannot be recovered. > And what good is it trying to sue a “poor person”? None, often, that's a large part of what you are insuring against by having uninsured driver insurance.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      And theoretically, how much more would insurance cost if states didn’t enforce every driver have insurance? As soon as you cancel insurance in my state, it gets reported.

chiph 4y ago

> Even with a perfect record since 15.5 years of age. Each driving session is statistically independent. The probability of you getting in a vehicle accident resets every time you get behind the wheel. The actual probability in each session varies based on things like your alertness level, vehicle condition, weather conditions, traffic levels, and so on. Something you can do to reduce your premiums is to shop around every 3-4 years. Most of the big-name insurance companies will start raising your rates around that time-frame because they assume the hassle of changing companies will keep you with them (i.e. human inertia). Another way is to drive "old man" cars. They're usually bigger & heavier, and perform better in accidents than something small & zippy. So they get lower rates because the chance of high medical bills is reduced.

eru 4y ago
> Each driving session is statistically independent. What's your evidence for that?
- mellavora 4y ago
  not evidence, just basic statistical reasoning based on a set of necessary assumptions. I'm going to assume you are a reasonably competent driver. Also, that your driving routine is pretty stable. Now these assumptions may not apply to you, but they do apply in general, which is what you need to set insurance risk. Traffic density on your Wed commute to work is pretty stable week over week, with approximately the same percentage of over-tired or over-stressed drivers. Your driving ability has probably not significantly improved over the last 6 months. Thus, your chance of getting into an accident this morning on the way to work is independent of the chance of you having an accident next Wednesday. Likewise, your chance of getting into an accident this morning is independent of the chance of your co-worker who lives on the other side of town but has a similar risk profile to you of the commute (same type of roads, same distances). In general, in aggregate. Y
  - eru 4y ago
    I'm not sure. Someone who just had five accidents in the last three weeks might drive differently today, don't you think?