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Are you saying that there have always been people who looked like Swedes in Sweden? Because from my reading of the literature 5,000 years ago there people livin

Are you saying that there have always been people who looked like Swedes in Sweden? Because from my reading of the literature 5,000 years ago there people living there had blue eyes but dark hair and a complexion we’d associate with Mediterranean peoples. Most dog breeds were created in less than 150 years. Call it 150 generations. 5,000 years is 200 generations at 25 years per generation. Enough time to change quite dramatically.

TameAntelope 5y ago
There is no such thing as a genetic "Swede". Literally every trait you could name is neither exclusive on its own or in any particular combination with Swedish people. And no, humans were not bred like dogs, so your math is both offensive and completely useless. At this point I'm beginning to think you're being intentionally hateful.
- barry-cotter 5y ago
  > humans were not bred like dogs That the selection pressures on dogs were due to humans performing artificial selection and those on humans due to the environment does not mean that they weren’t both selection pressures. Thus brown ancestors to the very pale Swedes.
  - TameAntelope 5y ago
    There were no meaningfully powerful selection pressures on Swedes, such as the pressures we applied to dogs, not in the time period you've specified. Please stop spouting racist ideas, these were debunked thoroughly in the 1910s by Franz Boas and then over and over again by his students.
  - User23 5y ago
    Many, if not most, human populations spent the majority of their existence with some kind of arranged marriage system. I wouldn't say "bred like dogs" because it's insulting, but human mating and procreation isn't remotely random. This is true even in societies that no longer practice arranged marriages.
    - TameAntelope 5y ago
      This is so completely false it borders on offensive. You are speaking about sensitive matters you know very little. People were never "bred", arranged marriages were never genetically consistent across even one generation, let alone many, and your continued ignorant speculation aligns disturbingly well with how eugenicists described human evolution through the early 20th century.
    - barry-cotter 5y ago
      > Many, if not most, human populations spent the majority of their existence with some kind of arranged marriage system. We’re only confident agriculture has existed for ~5,000 years. Hunter gatherers don’t have the kinds of complex societies that can do organized coercion in a sustained way over generations. Even if you restrict yourself to post agriculture arranged marriage is far from universal and there’s no evidence I’m aware of of a sustained breeding programme selecting for some trait among humans. Not random and selectively bred work at very different speeds.
      - User23 5y ago
        > Hunter gatherers don’t have the kinds of complex societies that can do organized coercion in a sustained way over generations Extrapolating from the few extant hunter gatherer tribes that never achieved complex civilization to the tribes that invented agriculture is obviously wildly erroneous.

TameAntelope 5y ago

There is no such thing as a genetic "Swede". Literally every trait you could name is neither exclusive on its own or in any particular combination with Swedish people. And no, humans were not bred like dogs, so your math is both offensive and completely useless. At this point I'm beginning to think you're being intentionally hateful.

barry-cotter 5y ago
> humans were not bred like dogs That the selection pressures on dogs were due to humans performing artificial selection and those on humans due to the environment does not mean that they weren’t both selection pressures. Thus brown ancestors to the very pale Swedes.
- TameAntelope 5y ago
  There were no meaningfully powerful selection pressures on Swedes, such as the pressures we applied to dogs, not in the time period you've specified. Please stop spouting racist ideas, these were debunked thoroughly in the 1910s by Franz Boas and then over and over again by his students.
- User23 5y ago
  Many, if not most, human populations spent the majority of their existence with some kind of arranged marriage system. I wouldn't say "bred like dogs" because it's insulting, but human mating and procreation isn't remotely random. This is true even in societies that no longer practice arranged marriages.
  - TameAntelope 5y ago
    This is so completely false it borders on offensive. You are speaking about sensitive matters you know very little. People were never "bred", arranged marriages were never genetically consistent across even one generation, let alone many, and your continued ignorant speculation aligns disturbingly well with how eugenicists described human evolution through the early 20th century.
  - barry-cotter 5y ago
    > Many, if not most, human populations spent the majority of their existence with some kind of arranged marriage system. We’re only confident agriculture has existed for ~5,000 years. Hunter gatherers don’t have the kinds of complex societies that can do organized coercion in a sustained way over generations. Even if you restrict yourself to post agriculture arranged marriage is far from universal and there’s no evidence I’m aware of of a sustained breeding programme selecting for some trait among humans. Not random and selectively bred work at very different speeds.
    - User23 5y ago
      > Hunter gatherers don’t have the kinds of complex societies that can do organized coercion in a sustained way over generations Extrapolating from the few extant hunter gatherer tribes that never achieved complex civilization to the tribes that invented agriculture is obviously wildly erroneous.