3 ms·

> Contractors increasingly see themselves as second-class citizens This made me laugh My dude, you’re not a citizen at all.

guelo 5y ago
What is your point? Sencond-class citizen seems like a valid analogy for two types of employees.
- TAForObvReasons 5y ago
  There's arguably a difference between a contractor employed by Nintendo (receiving a 1099 from the company) and a contractor employed by an outsourcing firm that Nintendo uses (paid by the outsourcing firm). The former seems analogous to "second-class citizens" while the latter seems analogous to "foreign resident"
- oneoff786 5y ago
  A contractor is not an employee.
- somehnacct3757 5y ago
  Perhaps making a reference to the fact that employees (contract or otherwise) are more like subjects than citizens.
kjs3 5y ago
Yeah, weird...'contractor' as an employment category by definition means that a company doesn't deal with you as a regular employee. What exactly did these people think they signed up for?
- kodah 5y ago
  Employers make it a point, often, to blur the lines. Contractors, by government definition, get to choose their own hours, their own tools, they must be compensated dynamically for their expenses. When I was a contractor I felt that I was an FTE with shittier benefits; I was told where to be and when to be there, my tools were dictated to me, and if I ever asked about purchasing something to do my job better I was assuredly told, "no". I think, "I feel like a second class citizen" adds up to, "I was duped into FTE with none of the benefits."
  - shadowgovt 5y ago
    The healthiest thing to do, as a contractor, is to draw the line in both directions. Be very familiar with your contract and if an employer asks you to do something outside it, reply with a very clear "I'm sorry but that's not in the scope of my duties. If you need me to take that on we can renegotiate." It feels shitty if you're of the mindset that you want to solve problems and not play legal games, but Lord knows the employer isn't incentivized to not try and wring every ounce of work out of you they can get for below-market FTE prices.
    - wk_end 5y ago
      Not that you're wrong...but (speaking from second-hand experience: my ex was [0] a contractor at FB) this sort of thing is a fabulous way to lose your job. The company will do whatever it has to do to bring the hammer down on any nails that stick out, and they've got enough legal and financial resources to get away with it. [0] https://medium.com/@techworkersco_79433/who-fired-the-ras-organizing-the-worst-job-at-facebook-97c63cb40683 https://medium.com/@techworkersco_79433/who-fired-the-ras-or...
      - shadowgovt 5y ago
        You are 100% correct. Unfortunately, that attitude is needed because it also serves as an early-warning fuse for that relationship; the in-built assumption in my advice is the contractor has the freedom to leave and contract with someone else. If the employer tries to extract work from you without compensation, they are abusing the contractor relationship and giving a clear signal that it may be time to take one's labor elsewhere.
  - junar 5y ago
    The word "contractor" is overloaded. Many folks, apparently including the Nintendo workers described [1], are actually not contractors, in the 1099 sense, under the law. Instead, they are W-2 employees of Company B, which is hired by Company A. Company B is legally responsible for offering them benefits, but they don't have to be equal to Company A's. [1] "The specific charge, as first reported by Axios, is levied against both Nintendo of America and recruiting firm Aston Carter, which hires contractors for various administrative and customer support roles at Nintendo." https://www.ign.com/articles/former-nintendo-employee-accuses-firing-unionization https://www.ign.com/articles/former-nintendo-employee-accuse...
- shadowgovt 5y ago
  In general, "a job at a name people know." It's not like Google, for example, is looking to hire you if you don't have one of the couple-dozen college names they're into on your résumé. But if you get hired by a contracting company that posts you at Google to do a contracted task, you'll get to put that "Worked at Google" experience on the résumé and get a leg up. Plus some people (falsely) assume that the environment will be great because the company has a great reputation. At the interface of the contractor level, that varies widely. I had to go to bat at my old office because I randomly showed up on the weekend and found out all the contractors were working in 85-degree heat in an office building; the building turned the A/C off on the weekend to save power, and nobody had thought to ask it be turned on when we moved a whole contracting team in to work weekends.
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    How do you put on your resume worked for google when you worked for actionforce or outshored?
    - SgtBastard 5y ago
      >worked at Google. At, not for.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  If a contractor is part of the team treat them like they are or don't expect them to be part of your team.
jayd16 5y ago
Just because you're a contractor it doesn't mean you don't deserve "even a basic professional respect."
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
heavyset_go 5y ago
In my experience freelancing, you tend to be treated as a business owning peer than a "citizen" employee. That's different than the types of contractors that work for body shops like Accenture. Those "contractors" are not treated like business owners or employees, but a lower tier of replaceable cheap and servile labor resources. They also get paid much, much less than your typical contractor. Think like $30 to $40 an hour, obviously with zero benefits, and they aren't afforded the freedoms most freelancing devs enjoy, like the abilities to choose when, where and how their work gets done.

guelo 5y ago

What is your point? Sencond-class citizen seems like a valid analogy for two types of employees.

TAForObvReasons 5y ago
There's arguably a difference between a contractor employed by Nintendo (receiving a 1099 from the company) and a contractor employed by an outsourcing firm that Nintendo uses (paid by the outsourcing firm). The former seems analogous to "second-class citizens" while the latter seems analogous to "foreign resident"
oneoff786 5y ago
A contractor is not an employee.
somehnacct3757 5y ago
Perhaps making a reference to the fact that employees (contract or otherwise) are more like subjects than citizens.

kjs3 5y ago

Yeah, weird...'contractor' as an employment category by definition means that a company doesn't deal with you as a regular employee. What exactly did these people think they signed up for?

kodah 5y ago
Employers make it a point, often, to blur the lines. Contractors, by government definition, get to choose their own hours, their own tools, they must be compensated dynamically for their expenses. When I was a contractor I felt that I was an FTE with shittier benefits; I was told where to be and when to be there, my tools were dictated to me, and if I ever asked about purchasing something to do my job better I was assuredly told, "no". I think, "I feel like a second class citizen" adds up to, "I was duped into FTE with none of the benefits."
- shadowgovt 5y ago
  The healthiest thing to do, as a contractor, is to draw the line in both directions. Be very familiar with your contract and if an employer asks you to do something outside it, reply with a very clear "I'm sorry but that's not in the scope of my duties. If you need me to take that on we can renegotiate." It feels shitty if you're of the mindset that you want to solve problems and not play legal games, but Lord knows the employer isn't incentivized to not try and wring every ounce of work out of you they can get for below-market FTE prices.
  - wk_end 5y ago
    Not that you're wrong...but (speaking from second-hand experience: my ex was [0] a contractor at FB) this sort of thing is a fabulous way to lose your job. The company will do whatever it has to do to bring the hammer down on any nails that stick out, and they've got enough legal and financial resources to get away with it. [0] https://medium.com/@techworkersco_79433/who-fired-the-ras-organizing-the-worst-job-at-facebook-97c63cb40683 https://medium.com/@techworkersco_79433/who-fired-the-ras-or...
    - shadowgovt 5y ago
      You are 100% correct. Unfortunately, that attitude is needed because it also serves as an early-warning fuse for that relationship; the in-built assumption in my advice is the contractor has the freedom to leave and contract with someone else. If the employer tries to extract work from you without compensation, they are abusing the contractor relationship and giving a clear signal that it may be time to take one's labor elsewhere.
- junar 5y ago
  The word "contractor" is overloaded. Many folks, apparently including the Nintendo workers described [1], are actually not contractors, in the 1099 sense, under the law. Instead, they are W-2 employees of Company B, which is hired by Company A. Company B is legally responsible for offering them benefits, but they don't have to be equal to Company A's. [1] "The specific charge, as first reported by Axios, is levied against both Nintendo of America and recruiting firm Aston Carter, which hires contractors for various administrative and customer support roles at Nintendo." https://www.ign.com/articles/former-nintendo-employee-accuses-firing-unionization https://www.ign.com/articles/former-nintendo-employee-accuse...
shadowgovt 5y ago
In general, "a job at a name people know." It's not like Google, for example, is looking to hire you if you don't have one of the couple-dozen college names they're into on your résumé. But if you get hired by a contracting company that posts you at Google to do a contracted task, you'll get to put that "Worked at Google" experience on the résumé and get a leg up. Plus some people (falsely) assume that the environment will be great because the company has a great reputation. At the interface of the contractor level, that varies widely. I had to go to bat at my old office because I randomly showed up on the weekend and found out all the contractors were working in 85-degree heat in an office building; the building turned the A/C off on the weekend to save power, and nobody had thought to ask it be turned on when we moved a whole contracting team in to work weekends.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  How do you put on your resume worked for google when you worked for actionforce or outshored?
  - SgtBastard 5y ago
    >worked at Google. At, not for.
ipaddr 5y ago
If a contractor is part of the team treat them like they are or don't expect them to be part of your team.

jayd16 5y ago

Just because you're a contractor it doesn't mean you don't deserve "even a basic professional respect."

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

heavyset_go 5y ago

In my experience freelancing, you tend to be treated as a business owning peer than a "citizen" employee. That's different than the types of contractors that work for body shops like Accenture. Those "contractors" are not treated like business owners or employees, but a lower tier of replaceable cheap and servile labor resources. They also get paid much, much less than your typical contractor. Think like $30 to $40 an hour, obviously with zero benefits, and they aren't afforded the freedoms most freelancing devs enjoy, like the abilities to choose when, where and how their work gets done.