4 ms·

> they work shockingly well For what? (Correlations are interesting scientifically of course, but for everyone else?) > No one cares about the ability to scor

by klabb3 5y ago

> they work shockingly well For what? (Correlations are interesting scientifically of course, but for everyone else?) > No one cares about the ability to score well on IQ tests. Except for Mensa and their applicants. I don't mind IQ research. I do mind exclusive clubs for the sake of exclusivity, and especially those that are (supposedly and explicitly) genetically determined entry criteria. It smells bad.

netjiro 5y ago
> I do mind exclusive clubs for the sake of exclusivity, and especially those that are (supposedly and explicitly) genetically determined entry criteria. It smells bad. ? what is your stance on, e.g., competitive sports teams ?
version_five 5y ago
I don't mind research or clubs. If people want to have their own little puzzle club or whatever, that's entirely their right. And research into human intelligence is interesting wherever it goes. What I'm skeptical of is applying stereotyping - and that's what this is, it's s predictive model that's based on averages, not the individual - to any kind of real decision that's any more weighty that letting you into a club. Like education decisions for example.
- PKop 5y ago
  Ok, but individuals can all take these and other tests no? It is not only stereotyped assumptions around group averages applied to individuals. It is also aversion or even policy regulation against even giving tests and acting on the results towards individuals, as this entails inevitable discrimination when the natural and unavoidable hierarchy of human abilities is observed.
viraptor 5y ago
Not quite genetically. You can train yourself in solving those puzzles. Although it undermines the whole idea of an IQ club for me.
- dirnctiwnsidj 5y ago
  The measurement can be influenced by practice. The g factor—the thing IQ tests are designed to measure—appears to be immune to practice, though I am not sure how this was determined. Similar tests, like the SAT and GRE, are designed to work even with practice. They have other problems.
brian_cloutier 5y ago
> especially those that are (supposedly and explicitly) genetically determined entry criteria. IQ is very much so not genetically determined. See for instance the flynn effect which is happening far too fast to be the result of genetics. IQ is only ~50% heritable.
- klabb3 5y ago
  Yeah, hence "supposedly". The club's criteria is based on some form of largely immutable or hard to change personal trait. I can understand this in one way: as a support group. Highly intelligent people don't always have easy lives, especially when growing up. But if it was a support group, you'd have very little use for a test.

by klabb3 5y ago

netjiro 5y ago

> I do mind exclusive clubs for the sake of exclusivity, and especially those that are (supposedly and explicitly) genetically determined entry criteria. It smells bad. ? what is your stance on, e.g., competitive sports teams ?

version_five 5y ago

I don't mind research or clubs. If people want to have their own little puzzle club or whatever, that's entirely their right. And research into human intelligence is interesting wherever it goes. What I'm skeptical of is applying stereotyping - and that's what this is, it's s predictive model that's based on averages, not the individual - to any kind of real decision that's any more weighty that letting you into a club. Like education decisions for example.

PKop 5y ago
Ok, but individuals can all take these and other tests no? It is not only stereotyped assumptions around group averages applied to individuals. It is also aversion or even policy regulation against even giving tests and acting on the results towards individuals, as this entails inevitable discrimination when the natural and unavoidable hierarchy of human abilities is observed.

viraptor 5y ago

Not quite genetically. You can train yourself in solving those puzzles. Although it undermines the whole idea of an IQ club for me.

dirnctiwnsidj 5y ago
The measurement can be influenced by practice. The g factor—the thing IQ tests are designed to measure—appears to be immune to practice, though I am not sure how this was determined. Similar tests, like the SAT and GRE, are designed to work even with practice. They have other problems.

brian_cloutier 5y ago

> especially those that are (supposedly and explicitly) genetically determined entry criteria. IQ is very much so not genetically determined. See for instance the flynn effect which is happening far too fast to be the result of genetics. IQ is only ~50% heritable.

klabb3 5y ago
Yeah, hence "supposedly". The club's criteria is based on some form of largely immutable or hard to change personal trait. I can understand this in one way: as a support group. Highly intelligent people don't always have easy lives, especially when growing up. But if it was a support group, you'd have very little use for a test.