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>Not everyone understands or can engage in body language. Well you sure as hell aren't going to get better at it by throwing up your hands and declaring it jus

by EricE 4y ago

>Not everyone understands or can engage in body language. Well you sure as hell aren't going to get better at it by throwing up your hands and declaring it just isn't for you. I'm naturally introverted, but when I say that to co-workers they don't believe it - because over the years I have learned to adapt. I'm very extroverted at work - because it's necessary. Yup, I pay a price - it's exhausting and I need time to recharge. But the benefits of adapting to normal work environments instead of demanding the world adapt to me are immeasurable. There are tons of things I can do now that I couldn't do before. Many of them are unpleasant. But they are necessary and without many of them I wouldn't be anywhere near where I am today. Good luck with waiting for the world to adapt to you. Let's get back together in 30 years and see how that attitude works for you. I'm sure the universe will have been incredibly unfair to you :p This whole victim = anything hard/I just don't want to do is getting old. And it devalues people with legitimate issues.

dleslie 4y ago
... How are those who are physically incapable of engaging in normal body language, due to any number of permanent physical conditions, going to simply pull themselves up by their bootstraps and do it? They're not.
- engineeringwoke 4y ago
  This isn't the point the OP was trying to make and you know that. Lesson one: don't assume the worst about people and don't make hyperbolic arguments in order to be "right". You might have more in-person success that way.
  - dleslie 4y ago
    The point they were making was ignoring one of the groups of people that I mentioned, because in order to make their point they _had_ to ignore that class of individual. > > I'm naturally introverted, but when I say that to co-workers they don't believe it - because over the years I have learned to adapt. > > There are tons of things I can do now that I couldn't do before. Many of them are unpleasant. But they are necessary and without many of them I wouldn't be anywhere near where I am today. Good luck with waiting for the world to adapt to you. Some people _simply cannot adapt_. It is not a possibility.
    - engineeringwoke 4y ago
      You can. All the answers are in your childhood, but you may discover things that you won't be able to forget
      - dleslie 4y ago
        ... No. Many people suffer from partial or full paralysis of facial muscles, neurological conditions that limit expression, and numerous other conditions that will forever and permanently limit their ability to engage in expressive body language.
        engineeringwoke 4y ago
        but these are very rare things. The person you originally responded to did not mean anything against anyone who has these things. I've met many people in my life that were convinced they were unable to do things that they were quite capable of. Stephen Hawking was still quite expressive despite his limitations, although they did come later in life
        dleslie 4y ago
        They ignored that class of individual in their response; individuals who exist and who I've personally worked with and do continue to work with. > Stephen Hawking was still quite expressive despite his limitations, although they did come later in life He's a fantastic example of why you don't need to rely on body language to communicate emotion and feeling.
        engineeringwoke 4y ago
        Sure, but have to understand that a limitation of language is that it doesn't convey perfect information. When someone says "anyone can do it", they mean that most people with full-blown "stuck in the house for years" social anxiety, can actually do it, and they meant nothing negative against those who are truly physically disabled. People summarize their thoughts when they speak and try to convey a picture that most people can understand; they are not trying to hurt anyone
- Grustaf 4y ago
  No they're not. But that is not a reason to make everyone incapable of using body language, by removing offices.
  - dleslie 4y ago
    Video calls convey body language. You don't need an office for that.
banannaise 4y ago
"Why haven't you just tried not being autistic?"
kbelder 4y ago
I agree. I wrote a rant and deleted it, because I don't want to post inflammatory content here. But I'll say that I had social anxiety, and that sometimes it can be overcome (certainly not always). But it will never be overcome without stress, often painful stress; and the cruel harsh world is actually a very good training ground to force you to improve. I'm glad my shortcomings weren't coddled; I'm glad they were viewed as something I'd have to either fix or cope with. There are degrees of anxiety and other mental/emotional problems. Many are not going to be fixed, some require medication, some are just too severe. But it's a gradient, and some can get better with exposure, and removing that exposure can be detrimental (even though that exposure is unpleasant).

by EricE 4y ago

dleslie 4y ago

... How are those who are physically incapable of engaging in normal body language, due to any number of permanent physical conditions, going to simply pull themselves up by their bootstraps and do it? They're not.

engineeringwoke 4y ago
This isn't the point the OP was trying to make and you know that. Lesson one: don't assume the worst about people and don't make hyperbolic arguments in order to be "right". You might have more in-person success that way.
- dleslie 4y ago
  The point they were making was ignoring one of the groups of people that I mentioned, because in order to make their point they _had_ to ignore that class of individual. > > I'm naturally introverted, but when I say that to co-workers they don't believe it - because over the years I have learned to adapt. > > There are tons of things I can do now that I couldn't do before. Many of them are unpleasant. But they are necessary and without many of them I wouldn't be anywhere near where I am today. Good luck with waiting for the world to adapt to you. Some people _simply cannot adapt_. It is not a possibility.
  - engineeringwoke 4y ago
    You can. All the answers are in your childhood, but you may discover things that you won't be able to forget
    - dleslie 4y ago
      ... No. Many people suffer from partial or full paralysis of facial muscles, neurological conditions that limit expression, and numerous other conditions that will forever and permanently limit their ability to engage in expressive body language.
      - engineeringwoke 4y ago
        but these are very rare things. The person you originally responded to did not mean anything against anyone who has these things. I've met many people in my life that were convinced they were unable to do things that they were quite capable of. Stephen Hawking was still quite expressive despite his limitations, although they did come later in life
        dleslie 4y ago
        They ignored that class of individual in their response; individuals who exist and who I've personally worked with and do continue to work with. > Stephen Hawking was still quite expressive despite his limitations, although they did come later in life He's a fantastic example of why you don't need to rely on body language to communicate emotion and feeling.
        engineeringwoke 4y ago
        Sure, but have to understand that a limitation of language is that it doesn't convey perfect information. When someone says "anyone can do it", they mean that most people with full-blown "stuck in the house for years" social anxiety, can actually do it, and they meant nothing negative against those who are truly physically disabled. People summarize their thoughts when they speak and try to convey a picture that most people can understand; they are not trying to hurt anyone
Grustaf 4y ago
No they're not. But that is not a reason to make everyone incapable of using body language, by removing offices.
- dleslie 4y ago
  Video calls convey body language. You don't need an office for that.

banannaise 4y ago

"Why haven't you just tried not being autistic?"

kbelder 4y ago

I agree. I wrote a rant and deleted it, because I don't want to post inflammatory content here. But I'll say that I had social anxiety, and that sometimes it can be overcome (certainly not always). But it will never be overcome without stress, often painful stress; and the cruel harsh world is actually a very good training ground to force you to improve. I'm glad my shortcomings weren't coddled; I'm glad they were viewed as something I'd have to either fix or cope with. There are degrees of anxiety and other mental/emotional problems. Many are not going to be fixed, some require medication, some are just too severe. But it's a gradient, and some can get better with exposure, and removing that exposure can be detrimental (even though that exposure is unpleasant).