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On top of that, just figuring out which Lisp to start with, and how to get started with it, is an ordeal. In the JVM ecosystem, Java is pretty obvious, and Kotl

On top of that, just figuring out which Lisp to start with, and how to get started with it, is an ordeal. In the JVM ecosystem, Java is pretty obvious, and Kotlin is a pretty obvious alternative. In the Lisp ecosystem, the well known SCIP is targeted at Scheme, Clojure is pretty well known, then there's Racket, ChezScheme, CommonLisp, and the they all look like pretty good starting places.

mumblemumble 4y ago
It's an expensive choice to make, too. It quickly becomes apparent that, no matter which lisp you choose, there will always be a group of people trying to convince you that you picked the wrong one, and pressuring you to second-guess yourself.
- reikonomusha 4y ago
  You're saying it's expensive because... people on non-topical forums might tell you their opinion, uninformed of your circumstances? If you choose language X, I advise learning it alongside people who know and use X. It seems like a no-brainer to me, and not all that expensive.
  - mumblemumble 4y ago
    It's expensive because seeing that kind of stuff as a potential newcomer to a community can have a way of psyching a person out and making them think they need to be extra careful about this decision. Basically, that "if you choose..." advice is for the wrong context, specifically because of the "if you choose" qualifier. I'm talking about what happens during the pre-choice time period.
    - reikonomusha 4y ago
      I don't want to diminish the challenges newcomers have with interacting with people online, but we have to understand that even choosing Lisp is going to be met with significant derision from people who don't write Lisp since it's not a top-10 language. "Lol just use Python it's the second best at everything," is a common refrain to people who are trying in earnest to learn something new and nonstandard for a change. While I won't claim nobody has been "psyched out" by a community of people for their language-learning choices, I just don't think that this is something that happens with Lisp particularly often. The subreddit r/Lisp is predominantly Common Lisp, but more frequently than not accepts viewpoints from Clojure, Scheme, Racket, and even NewLisp programmers all in the same comment section, without bickering. As I said, if anybody wants to learn a new technology, and that somebody is a social person, finding a supportive community is important. If somebody going to be a novice at a particular language, and broadcast opinions about that language on disparate forums—some opinions which may come across as uninformed—sure, people will likely come out of the woodwork to correct them, suggest allegedly superior technology, etc.

mumblemumble 4y ago

It's an expensive choice to make, too. It quickly becomes apparent that, no matter which lisp you choose, there will always be a group of people trying to convince you that you picked the wrong one, and pressuring you to second-guess yourself.

reikonomusha 4y ago
You're saying it's expensive because... people on non-topical forums might tell you their opinion, uninformed of your circumstances? If you choose language X, I advise learning it alongside people who know and use X. It seems like a no-brainer to me, and not all that expensive.
- mumblemumble 4y ago
  It's expensive because seeing that kind of stuff as a potential newcomer to a community can have a way of psyching a person out and making them think they need to be extra careful about this decision. Basically, that "if you choose..." advice is for the wrong context, specifically because of the "if you choose" qualifier. I'm talking about what happens during the pre-choice time period.
  - reikonomusha 4y ago
    I don't want to diminish the challenges newcomers have with interacting with people online, but we have to understand that even choosing Lisp is going to be met with significant derision from people who don't write Lisp since it's not a top-10 language. "Lol just use Python it's the second best at everything," is a common refrain to people who are trying in earnest to learn something new and nonstandard for a change. While I won't claim nobody has been "psyched out" by a community of people for their language-learning choices, I just don't think that this is something that happens with Lisp particularly often. The subreddit r/Lisp is predominantly Common Lisp, but more frequently than not accepts viewpoints from Clojure, Scheme, Racket, and even NewLisp programmers all in the same comment section, without bickering. As I said, if anybody wants to learn a new technology, and that somebody is a social person, finding a supportive community is important. If somebody going to be a novice at a particular language, and broadcast opinions about that language on disparate forums—some opinions which may come across as uninformed—sure, people will likely come out of the woodwork to correct them, suggest allegedly superior technology, etc.