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> I didn’t imply that they are not GPL compliant. I stated it directly. That's good. It would be even better to show that they are GPL non-compliant by showing

> I didn’t imply that they are not GPL compliant. I stated it directly. That's good. It would be even better to show that they are GPL non-compliant by showing their response and confirming they're not willing to comply. As you said, you're not able to, and that's fine, I'm just saying it would be even better if you could. > I do have the time, energy, resources and motivation to share this singular fact with others so they can make their own choice about which companies they support. That's fine.

chaostheory 4y ago
The burden of proof is on Onyx, and not some random commenter who mentioned that there's no proof that they're GPL compliant. No one can seem to find a link to the source code. Maybe Onyx should make it easier to find?
- robinsoh 4y ago
  > The burden of proof is on Onyx, and not some random commenter who mentioned that there's no proof that they're GPL compliant. I agree with you that Onyx is likely in violation of the GPL. That said, the way I'm used to things is; the person who alleges a crime is committed is the one that has to show evidence. Onyx doesn't have to prove they're innocent. The prosecution has to prove they're guilty. So if we want to see Onyx punished, then we need to find someone who owns an Onyx that has asked Onyx to comply with the GPL and provide source, and showing that they refused to do so. At that point, they would immediately be non-compliant and thus susceptible to many injunctions, meaning their products could be stopped at the border. Pretty sure they'd pay attention to that.
  - wfhordie 4y ago
    Here ya go. Asked and answered. http://bbs.onyx-international.com/t/install-linux-or-alternate-os-and-gpl2-kernel-source/698/5 http://bbs.onyx-international.com/t/install-linux-or-alterna...
    - chaostheory 4y ago
      Thank you. I'm glad I didn't buy a boox. I was seriously contemplating it, and I was not aware of any of these issues until now. That forum thread is enlightening.
    - robinsoh 4y ago
      > Here ya go. Asked and answered. I see the link shows a forum discussion. I guess I was looking for something more like: So if we want to see Onyx punished, then we need to find someone who owns an Onyx that has asked Onyx to comply with the GPL and provide source, and showing that they refused to do so. At that point, they would immediately be non-compliant and thus susceptible to many injunctions, meaning their products could be stopped at the border. Pretty sure they'd pay attention to that. It needs to be a clear formal request with proof of ownership and failure of the supplier to provide source for the GPL to be applicable.
      - wfhordie 4y ago
        >then we need to find someone who owns an Onyx that has asked Onyx to comply with the GPL and provide source, and showing that they refused to do so. That's in the link I provided. Unfortunately, there isn't an automatic enforcement mechanism for cross-border GPL violations. There aren't lawyers waiting in the wings to file lawsuits on behalf of hackers who want to own their device. There isn't a framework for reporting these violations to any higher authority to advocate for us. I wish it were the case, but it's not.
        robinsoh 4y ago
        Sorry, but to be very clear, all I see in the link is just a forum discussion. No clear request showing ownership and right to claim source code, no clear response from someone clearly representing the distributor of the product saying no source code shall be provided. There is gpl-violations.org. Has anyone tried them?
  - chewmieser 4y ago
    It's been proven time and time again with this company. Until Onyx provides actual source code they are in violation. The burden of proof shifted to them once people could not locate the source code and they have yet to prove that they are not in violation. Here's one response from the company where they deflect on this issue: https://i.redd.it/0lx58maqrbb51.png https://i.redd.it/0lx58maqrbb51.png The link you were shared above on Wikipedia also has another response, where they decline to provide source: http://bbs.onyx-international.com/t/install-linux-or-alternate-os-and-gpl2-kernel-source/698 http://bbs.onyx-international.com/t/install-linux-or-alterna...
    - robinsoh 4y ago
      > Here's one response from the company where they deflect on this issue: https://i.redd.it/0lx58maqrbb51.png https://i.redd.it/0lx58maqrbb51.png Looking at that picture, I see a comment on a forum from "Onyx-Boox.ru". Is that the same as Onyx, the company that actually ships the products worldwide? My suggestion to you guys is: So if we want to see Onyx punished, then we need to find someone who owns an Onyx that has asked Onyx to comply with the GPL and provide source, and showing that they refused to do so. At that point, they would immediately be non-compliant and thus susceptible to many injunctions, meaning their products could be stopped at the border. Pretty sure they'd pay attention to that. It needs to be a clear formal request with proof of ownership and failure of the supplier to provide source for the GPL to be applicable.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

chaostheory 4y ago

The burden of proof is on Onyx, and not some random commenter who mentioned that there's no proof that they're GPL compliant. No one can seem to find a link to the source code. Maybe Onyx should make it easier to find?

robinsoh 4y ago
> The burden of proof is on Onyx, and not some random commenter who mentioned that there's no proof that they're GPL compliant. I agree with you that Onyx is likely in violation of the GPL. That said, the way I'm used to things is; the person who alleges a crime is committed is the one that has to show evidence. Onyx doesn't have to prove they're innocent. The prosecution has to prove they're guilty. So if we want to see Onyx punished, then we need to find someone who owns an Onyx that has asked Onyx to comply with the GPL and provide source, and showing that they refused to do so. At that point, they would immediately be non-compliant and thus susceptible to many injunctions, meaning their products could be stopped at the border. Pretty sure they'd pay attention to that.
- wfhordie 4y ago
  Here ya go. Asked and answered. http://bbs.onyx-international.com/t/install-linux-or-alternate-os-and-gpl2-kernel-source/698/5 http://bbs.onyx-international.com/t/install-linux-or-alterna...
  - chaostheory 4y ago
    Thank you. I'm glad I didn't buy a boox. I was seriously contemplating it, and I was not aware of any of these issues until now. That forum thread is enlightening.
  - robinsoh 4y ago
    > Here ya go. Asked and answered. I see the link shows a forum discussion. I guess I was looking for something more like: So if we want to see Onyx punished, then we need to find someone who owns an Onyx that has asked Onyx to comply with the GPL and provide source, and showing that they refused to do so. At that point, they would immediately be non-compliant and thus susceptible to many injunctions, meaning their products could be stopped at the border. Pretty sure they'd pay attention to that. It needs to be a clear formal request with proof of ownership and failure of the supplier to provide source for the GPL to be applicable.
    - wfhordie 4y ago
      >then we need to find someone who owns an Onyx that has asked Onyx to comply with the GPL and provide source, and showing that they refused to do so. That's in the link I provided. Unfortunately, there isn't an automatic enforcement mechanism for cross-border GPL violations. There aren't lawyers waiting in the wings to file lawsuits on behalf of hackers who want to own their device. There isn't a framework for reporting these violations to any higher authority to advocate for us. I wish it were the case, but it's not.
      - robinsoh 4y ago
        Sorry, but to be very clear, all I see in the link is just a forum discussion. No clear request showing ownership and right to claim source code, no clear response from someone clearly representing the distributor of the product saying no source code shall be provided. There is gpl-violations.org. Has anyone tried them?
- chewmieser 4y ago
  It's been proven time and time again with this company. Until Onyx provides actual source code they are in violation. The burden of proof shifted to them once people could not locate the source code and they have yet to prove that they are not in violation. Here's one response from the company where they deflect on this issue: https://i.redd.it/0lx58maqrbb51.png https://i.redd.it/0lx58maqrbb51.png The link you were shared above on Wikipedia also has another response, where they decline to provide source: http://bbs.onyx-international.com/t/install-linux-or-alternate-os-and-gpl2-kernel-source/698 http://bbs.onyx-international.com/t/install-linux-or-alterna...
  - robinsoh 4y ago
    > Here's one response from the company where they deflect on this issue: https://i.redd.it/0lx58maqrbb51.png https://i.redd.it/0lx58maqrbb51.png Looking at that picture, I see a comment on a forum from "Onyx-Boox.ru". Is that the same as Onyx, the company that actually ships the products worldwide? My suggestion to you guys is: So if we want to see Onyx punished, then we need to find someone who owns an Onyx that has asked Onyx to comply with the GPL and provide source, and showing that they refused to do so. At that point, they would immediately be non-compliant and thus susceptible to many injunctions, meaning their products could be stopped at the border. Pretty sure they'd pay attention to that. It needs to be a clear formal request with proof of ownership and failure of the supplier to provide source for the GPL to be applicable.
deleted 4y ago
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